Left turn when general green but arrow is off

[kurby]

If that is the case, always bring a traffic handbook and read it aloud if you are aprehended with undue reason.

Here in the Philippines, most drivers are not trained on the road and don't expect traffic cops to be trained as well. All they know is to apprehend color coding violators, no more no less. Hehehe! And, they will just wait for you to commit any violation which is not existing like swerving.

You haven't experienced driving in Las Pinas or Cavite area where counterflow is legal.

[citizengeorge]

Sir would you be so kind and post copy of the letter that you sent to contest this ticket? Here in Pasig the mayor installed brand new traffic lights this year, and we have the same problem;

I haven't contested the ticket yet, and I'm not sure whether the mayor's office would be concerned with such "requests". The point is, there is no need to furnish the traffic light with a red arrow. The green arrow is permissive, and that's it.

But I'll let you know when I get one. I already printed the LTO penalties, Makati Traffic Code and the Presidential decree 1605 regarding confiscation of licenses. If he will let me go with a warning, I'll insist to get the ticket so I can contest it I'm not even supposed to get a warning.

I was pulled over by enforcers the other day for "swerving". I wasn't sure about the intersection, but he said that I had to pay penalties of 2000p for reckless driving, take 2 days seminar etc. He also wanted my license. I ended up paying him 200p bribe because I was in a hurry. But when I revisited the intersection, I realized that he was wrong. There were no arrows on the road indicating that the lane could only be used for straight/left turn. I'll contest it next time :-)

[citizengeorge]

By the way, I think I saw the traffic lights that you mentioned. It only has one box and the color changes inside using LED-color? Compared to the ordinary 3-box red/yellow/green.

The person who invented that traffic light is a jackass. The color blind will not be able to see if the arrow is light red or light green. They have to rely on the position, which is why other countries only use 3-box systems.

[CVT]

I'm glad to hear that it the appeal system actually works. I've read the 90-pages Makati Traffic Code, and it actually seems to conform with the Vienna Convention on Traffic Signals, which means that there is no mention that "left arrow which is off" is the same as a red arrow, on the contrary, it merely states that a left arrow which is on is permissive, and nothing else.

But Makati Traffic Code also states that drivers should give right of way (right hand vehicle and pedestrians) but so far I haven't seen any drivers being apprehended for that violation even when the traffic cop is just next to the violator who is even what I consider a reckless driver.

I heard someone, a Filipino politician I believe, say that Philippines actually already has an excellent law system. We don't need more laws. We need implementation.

I just realized its technicality....

There is a traffic light for left turn... If it is green then you can turn left,- and then the left turn green light turns off (meaning you are not allowed anymore to turn left). However, the green light is still on for those crossing the intersection. So, by "international practice", you are still allowed to make an unprotected left turn.... Whew!

I'd then say and agree that the left turn traffic light should have a provision to turn red, to remove any ambiguity in the implementation....

I will try to observe that when I cross the Zap-Alab Rd (southbound) - Acacia Ave intersection.

10.9K:lotsocoffee:

[CVT]

By the way, I think I saw the traffic lights that you mentioned. It only has one box and the color changes inside using LED-color? Compared to the ordinary 3-box red/yellow/green.

The person who invented that traffic light is a jackass. The color blind will not be able to see if the arrow is light red or light green. They have to rely on the position, which is why other countries only use 3-box systems.

OT: I'd say that is taking advantage of existing technology...

BTT:
Are persons who are color-blind now allowed to have driver's license here in the Philippines? Other countries?

I remember that they were not allowed some years ago....

10.9K:lotsocoffee:

[citizengeorge]

Are persons who are color-blind now allowed to have driver's license here in the Philippines? Other countries?

The thing is, there is no reason to make the signal smaller. It is actually easier to perceive the change of light from red to green when the light also changes position, rather than color only.

Colorblind are allowed to drive in Europe. Also, see this link:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1875309/

There is a dangerous and widespread assumption that colour-blind drivers drive as safely as drivers with normal vision. Colour-blind drivers have difficulties recognizing traffic and vehicle signals. However, simple and practical solutions such as changes to the design, colour and shape of signals will aid these drivers.

The point is that the society must always take care of minorities. In Denmark, all public institutions (government offices, universities, police stations etc.) are required to be accesible by disabled people, e.g. by wheel chair and elevators.

Furthermore, all it takes is that the designer of traffic signals takes precautions for color blind etc. Probably the manufacturer just wanted to make easy money and has limited experience. And then the mayor's office, who has even less experience, just accepted the bid, neglecting the experience and analysis that lies in the more expensive designs.

[citizengeorge]

Wow, check this one... absolutely beautiful:
http://www.neatorama.com/2010/06/09/...e-color-blind/

[CVT]

I just realized its technicality....

There is a traffic light for left turn... If it is green then you can turn left,- and then the left turn green light turns off (meaning you are not allowed anymore to turn left). However, the green light is still on for those crossing the intersection. So, by "international practice", you are still allowed to make an unprotected left turn.... Whew!

I'd then say and agree that the left turn traffic light should have a provision to turn red, to remove any ambiguity in the implementation....

I will try to observe that when I cross the Zap-Alab Rd (southbound) - Acacia Ave intersection.

10.9K:lotsocoffee:

Passed by that intersection last night. And yes, there is now a red traffic light for left turn,- placed over the green traffic light (for left turn)... This should eliminate the confusion.

And, I just realized that major intersections here in Sucat Rd (near McDonalds (President's Avenue), near Jollibee(El Grande Avenue), and at Evacom (Canaynay Ave) have this ambiguity in the left turn.

10.9K:lotsocoffee:

[cktlcmd]

This is what I noticed in the USA... if there is a separate light for left or right turns... then that rule you mentioned about being to make the turn if the major light is green would not apply. why? Because there is a separate light.

The same rules apply here in the Philippines. So... if you see a Green round light but a Red left turn light... that means you can not turn left, but all the cars can go straight or turn right. That also meant you can not turn left even if the opposite lane is free and no car is present.

Nothing is wrong there I think. The enforcer was correct in stopping you if you turned left because you saw no opposing traffic.

...

[citizengeorge]

The scenario is this:

Green light, no red arrow light existing, green arrow is off. In that case, the general green light permits travel in all directions with caution.

If the green arrow is lit, it permits travel in that direction WITHOUT caution, meaning YOU have the full right of way, including towards pedestrians.