"e-Jeepney" - The electric powered jeepney

[ghosthunter]

typical graph charting the number of recharge cycles vs percentage of capacity used per recharger/discharge cycle.



If you notice, the more of the capacity you use per cycle, the less number of cycles you can get from the battery.

It shows clearly that the more depleted the battery is per cycle, the shorter the "life" is for the battery. It might not even reach the assumed 500 cycles for the e-jeepney's battery pack if the operator/driver discharges the battery close to 100% discharge level on a regular basis.

[hein]

A e-jeepney from PHUV, Inc. of Romski123 with a Sarao jeepney

MR. UGLY and MR. UGLIER. 1940'S Design in the 21st Century

In this Digital Age, you will have a hard time selling these DINOSAURS.

[MaxAJ]

MR. UGLY and MR. UGLIER. 1940'S Design in the 21st Century

In this Digital Age, you will have a hard time selling these DINOSAURS.

I agree with you but in a more constructive criticism side.
Sarao should change the body model into a more updated and or contemporary design

[marg]

A e-jeepney from PHUV, Inc. of Romski123 with a Sarao jeepney

MR. Romski123, the Pinoys are used to good quality and modern design, notice that TOYOTA and NOKIA are the market leaders in the country.

Then stop giving us Crappy Ugly recycled designs of the outdated 1940's jipney if you want to stay in business. Many jipney makers have already gone bankrupt because of market rejection.

You are perpetuating Colonial mentality by coming up with such an Ugly car.

[ehnriko]

Hi Marg,

I believe that for as long as we "generally speaking" allow our under-exposed/ under-skilled/ under-trained workers to handle the DESIGN and Fabrication aspect of a "CONCEPT CAR" - vehicle for this matter... and we are only focused in paying bananas... We will only end up getting a car that looks like it came from a flintstones movie.

No less than a theme park ride.

This is reality.

We Pay Bananas - We Get Monkeys.

And not too many have a vision to create jobs that will keep Pinoys from migrating outside the country.

Some sort of self-destructive mechanism has been implanted in this countrie's mass consiousness...somehow, somewhere...something has gone wrong.

[ehnriko]

The DOE funds a company that recycles plug-in vehicle batteries.
By Tyler Hamilton

The US Department of Energy has granted $9.5 million to a company in California that plans to build America's first recycling facility for lithium-ion vehicle batteries.




Waste materials: Recycling worn-out batteries from electric cars produces a mix of finely shredded metals, consisting of cobalt, aluminum, nickel, and copper (show on the left), and a slurry that is processed into a cobalt cake (on the right).
Credit: Tesla Motors
Anaheim-based Toxco says it will use the funds to expand an existing facility in Lancaster, OH, that already recycles the lead-acid and nickel-metal hydride batteries used in today's hybrid-electric vehicles.

There is currently little economic need to recycle lithium-ion batteries. Most batteries contain only small amounts of lithium carbonate as a percentage of weight and the material is relatively inexpensive compared to most other metals.

But experts say that having a recycling infrastructure in place will ease concerns that the adoption of vehicles that use lithium-ion batteries could lead to a shortage of lithium carbonate and a dependence on countries such as China, Russia, and Bolivia, which control the bulk of global lithium reserves. "Right now it hardly pays to recycle lithium, but if demand increases and there are large supplies of used material, the situation could change," says Linda Gaines, a researcher at the Argonne National Laboratory's Transportation Technology R&D Center.

Toxco's DOE grant may seem like pocket change--last week the DOE awarded a total of $2.4 billion to companies developing batteries and systems for electric vehicles--but it's also early days for the project. Sales of plug-in hybrids and all-electric vehicles have yet to take off, and though President Barack Obama has pledged to get a million plug-in hybrids on US roads by 2015, it will likely be a decade before any large-scale recycling capability is required.

Demonstrating the capacity to recycle, however, will be key to showing that electric vehicles are truly "green"--both emission-free in operation and sustainable in design. "Management of these batteries has to be done in an environmentally responsible way and in an economic way," says Todd Coy, executive vice president of Kinsbursky Brothers, Toxco's parent company.

Toxco also has an edge over newcomers to the market. The company is already North America's leading battery recycler and has been recycling single-charge and rechargeable lithium batteries used in electronics devices and industrial applications since 1992 at its Canadian facility in Trail, British Columbia. "We're managing the bulk of the batteries already out there," says Coy.

The Trail facility is also the only one in the world that can handle different sizes and chemistries of lithium batteries. When old batteries arrive they go into a hammer mill and are shredded, allowing components made of aluminum, cooper, and steel to be separated easily. Larger batteries that might still hold a charge are cryogenically frozen with liquid nitrogen before being hammered and shredded; at -325 degrees Fahrenheit, the reactivity of the cells is reduced to zero. Lithium is then extracted by flooding the battery chambers in a caustic bath that dissolves lithium salts, which are filtered out and used to produce lithium carbonate. The remaining sludge is processed to recover cobalt, which is used to make battery electrodes. About 95 percent of the process is completely automated.

The DOE grant will help Toxco transfer the Trail recycling process to its Ohio operations, laying the foundation for an advanced lithium-battery recycling plant that can expand to accommodate expected growth in the US electric-vehicle market. The electric-car maker Tesla Motors, like most major automakers, already sends old or defective battery packs to Toxco's Trail facility for recycling. "It's very important for us," says Kurt Kelty, director of energy storage technologies at Tesla. "The recycling issue is a key issue and we need to get it right."

source: www.technologyreview.com

[KERSMcRae]

www.philstar.com


"PNP rolls out own e-jeepney at Camp Crame
A police officer test-drives an electric jeepney around Camp Crame yesterday after the Bantayog Lion’s Club turned over the keys to the vehicle yesterday during the 14th anniversary of the Philippine National Police’s Police-Community Relations Group. BOY SANTOS "


ok sana kung walang masyadong graphics. Exempted ba ang mga ito sa RA 8750?

[uls]

Hi Marg,

I believe that for as long as we "generally speaking" allow our under-exposed/ under-skilled/ under-trained workers to handle the DESIGN and Fabrication aspect of a "CONCEPT CAR" - vehicle for this matter... and we are only focused in paying bananas... We will only end up getting a car that looks like it came from a flintstones movie.

No less than a theme park ride.

This is reality.

We Pay Bananas - We Get Monkeys.

And not too many have a vision to create jobs that will keep Pinoys from migrating outside the country.

Some sort of self-destructive mechanism has been implanted in this countrie's mass consiousness...somehow, somewhere...something has gone wrong.

Pinoys are spoiled

i already said this in another thread:

mataas ang standards ng pinoys pag dating sa cars

pinagtatawanan ng mga pinoy ang mga China made cars

pinoys can even find faults in cars made by Toyota and Honda

so to create a pinoy made car that pinoys will take seriously, the car should be of better quality than China cars, at least at the same level as Korean cars

How much money will it take for pinoys here to make a car here that's at the level of... say... a Hyundai Accent?

i'm sure sa cost palang, mas mataas pa sa selling price ng isang brand new na Hyundai Accent

How are you going to price the pinoy car?

di naman pwede mas mahal sa Korean car

lalo di pwede kasing presyo o mas mahal pa sa Japanese cars

Sure, it's possible a local manufacturer to make high quality cars as long as the manufacturer has enough funding

but the next problem the pinoy manufacturer will face is PRICING

if you want a pinoy car manufacturer to be able to pay his employees handsomely and at the same time make a handsome profit, the price of the resulting products would be so high that there is NO WAY the pinoy products can compete with imported products

(unless the govt imposes super high taxes on competitors' cars)

that's where the foreigners have advantage of economies of scale

tama ka ehnriko, pinoy carmakers make ugly cars coz they don't have much funding to make pretty cars (you pay bananas, you get monkeys)

but noone is gonna pay gold for a pretty pinoy car when the same amount of gold can get you a Toyota or Honda that's also as pretty

[ehnriko]

Pinoys are spoiled
but noone is gonna pay gold for a pretty pinoy car when the same amount of gold can get you a Toyota or Honda that's also as pretty

I agree with most of what you have just said... but you have mistaken the trees for the forest when it comes to the cars per se.

We - pinoy entrepreneurs - dont need to pay gold for a good looking high quality pinoy car.( We dont really have to) We need to pay gold for the design engineering, materials engineering, platform engineering, manufacturing engineering, power to weight and ballast engineering, technology, and business engineering. With the aim of keeping the cost and price of the good looking pinoy car LOW.... really LOW. (Many ways to do it)

How the car will look and will be built must have a high standard... the expensive part is only during the start up. (Mostly, Pinoys tend to keep the start ups minimal or low... It's like betting too low on a strong card)

Once the prototype is done - kahit 3D model muna - upload it to a video game to compare with cars of it's class - this way - simulated ang virtual environment and performance and feel nung design or concept. (again, this is a low approach pero - acceptable... FEA is more expensive... but necessary - ideal)

Pag - ok na... then have the 3D model CNC milled for life size model.

Magastos ito - pero necessary.

then another gastos is when the design engineers gets their assignments to develop each part and components - if there are about 500 major components - distribute these to possible manufacturers... qualify them, make a sort of bidding, supply them the blueprints.

then the Assembly engineering work steps in... to study how and what ways to assemble the car quickly in consideration or after consultation with supply chain management staff.

Discuss with Logistics...

Then - implementation program comes in. (Project Management/ Engineering)

All of these happening simultaneous with the Marketing team activities- allowing them to be creative with their marketing plan and strategies - allowing them to use the 3D images that will be supplied by the design and engineering team.

They will be supplied with realistic renderings of the concept... no need to wait for the actual prototype or production model.

Of course, the power plant can be outsourced muna since making our engine is still a giant leap for the time being.

This way - a concept car can be made cheap - the cost of the design and manufacturing process is one time only... the same platform can be used for more designs to come... Platform adaptation/ Technology... with most of the OTC parts can also be reversed engineered if they are simpler to bui;ld and are not exposed out of the cars body.

The cost of production must not include the cost of design and engineering YET. The payback period for the initial investment must not be computed on the entry level production models but on 3 or more models that the company will produce. - Madali nang laruin ito.

As you said - economies of scale.

Unless we take a step towards enabling ourselves to have our own platform or design and manufacturing outfit - we will only remain suckers to foreign products.

This is really a forest... Automotive Manufacturing Industry is indeed a big industry, and if really given more attention.... you will find more job opportunities for more people locally.

There are so much aspects that can be distributed or shared to many in the urban communities like manufacturing of seats for instance. Leather or upholstery still needs to be manually sewn with an electric sawing machine. The women can do a better job on this than men. But of course, Jojo Almazora is making this already... it can be outsourced like what Toyoda did in Japan to smaller communities or prefectures...

The Chassis can also be supplied locally as well as most suspension parts or drive train.

Pistons can be made locally, but I am not aware if there are still smelting or casting plants existing in the country nowadays.

I can write a book on this... felt like college days when I made my FS on Automotive Manufacturing Industry in Cavite, Philippines in 1996.

When I was doing that, I visited Sarao, Legaspi Motors, FMC, Malaguena...Carter, etc. just to realize that this industry is nearly non-existent.

why?

Because not one of those mentioned companies have any effort in design and R & D nor investment on technology. Enthusiasm is also placed elsewhere... not in making a real Pinoy Car.

What they are all doing a Frankenstein Vehicles. (Like a halo-halo... with the exception of ANFRA and Harabas - but still not quite. Sakbayan is not Pinoy - it's Australian VW)

Even conge cars of Binky victa.

None dared to IMAGINE.

In the Automotive Industry - the shape and look of the cars is what enters the buyers senses first!

If we come last to the buyers attention - then we are definitely not going to make a sale.

Whether we like it or not... cars are products of emotion and when people buy cars - they are dictated by their emotions. for some reason why the color Black, Red and Maroon are more expensive.

In the Philippines... if you notice, people nowadays spend more on aesthetics... why? simply because they need attention... so much as a matter of fact. Bakit? kasi, kulang talaga tayo sa pansin. Walang pumapansin ng mga creation or design or produkto natin. (and this is for a really good reason)

To some extent - we have to face it... binobola na lang natin ang sarili natin. Sino pa ba tatangkilik ng sariling atin kundi tayo rin. Buy Filipino! Atin ito!

Sounds really patriotic - ever wonder why it sounded almost like pathetic.

I dont mean to sound critical, sarcasm unintended, no offense meant for anyone na masasagasaan.

I live by example... I used to own really nice cars... I miss my Lamborghini Countache Replica... I miss my 72 Dodge Charger SE and 69 Dart... I miss my 59 El Dorado Biarritz, and more... I used to be an OCD - specially when a small kid would touch my new car - tititigan ko pa kung nagasgas ito. At pagagalitan ko pa yung kawawang bata. I am now more happier without these collection. I am now more of a freeman. Owning and having a really cool car is actually enslaving. I don't need to be one... specially if it's made outside the Philippines. specially, when I know very well that I can actually build one - better looking than those. ginawa lang ng tao yan...

Anyway, I have outgrown this bad attitude already and began thinking more maturedly since year 2000.

I have adopted a more healthier way of thinking. Pag nagasgas ang kotse, ok lang, ibig sabihin, ginagamit at nagagamit ito. (A sign that the car served its purpose) Pag walang gasgas... ibig sabihin, (Masyado akong nag iingat - I am probably missing a lot of things... to a point Dinodiyos ko na ang kotse ko. Hindi ko naman madadala ito sa hukay. So why should I punish myself by getting angry for a small scratch or dent on any of my cars. Ikakamatay ko pa yan. wag na lang.

Now - you may ask why am I telling this in this thread?

It is merely to show that Pinoys are portraying themselves as if they are above the rest of the world when it comes to taste and culture when it comes to cars and many other aspects. Likas na itong kayabangan ng mga Pinoy.

I really find it ironic to see TOP GEAR Magazine showcasing the best looking and latest European Supercars at the backdraft of a 711 store with Poor Street Kids sleeping on the sidewalk.

How can we sleep when our beds are burning?

I will only be really proud and happy when the day comes that I can park my own Pinoy Designed - World Class or road worthy - Head Turning - Resilient - rugged - Pinoy Built car... Kahit magasgasan pa ito.

Of course... it should be airconditioned.

At any rate... para naman di ma off topic... The E-Jeepney is a of course a good attempt to save our dying industry. It has to be supported....

Walang mangyayari kung patuloy na mananahimik ang may nalalaman.

Omission is also a crime.

If you think you have something to contribute to make it look good or run good... we loose nothing by sharing our inputs to help romski in his endevour.

Cheers!

[ghosthunter]

Once the prototype is done - kahit 3D model muna - upload it to a video game to compare with cars of it's class - this way - simulated ang virtual environment and performance and feel nung design or concept. (again, this is a low approach pero - acceptable... FEA is more expensive... but necessary - ideal)

Pag - ok na... then have the 3D model CNC milled for life size model.

Magastos ito - pero necessary.

Finite Element Analysis has been available in the country for over a decade in DLSU. In fact the two cars (micro car projects) I had been involved back in college were simulated in FEA for crash and stresses.

Back then, we didn't even use 3D models nor had the need to upload to virtual video games. We made designs on paper and physical small scale models (to aid visualization of the design and parts interaction).

Using high tech tools are fine. But if you end up getting stuck with them and unable to proceed to the next step, then there is something wrong.

then another gastos is when the design engineers gets their assignments to develop each part and components - if there are about 500 major components - distribute these to possible manufacturers... qualify them, make a sort of bidding, supply them the blueprints.

And that is where we start to fail. We fail to make use of globalization. You keep on seeing the need to locally manufacture every single part down to the last component. Why reinvent the wheel when someone can make it to your specifications or better at a cheaper cost? All you need to do is look at re-branding and subcontracting.

then the Assembly engineering work steps in... to study how and what ways to assemble the car quickly in consideration or after consultation with supply chain management staff.

If you can't get a viable prototype off the drawing board, we don't have to bother with the assembly line.

This way - a concept car can be made cheap - the cost of the design and manufacturing process is one time only... the same platform can be used for more designs to come... Platform adaptation/ Technology... with most of the OTC parts can also be reversed engineered if they are simpler to bui;ld and are not exposed out of the cars body.

We did it for a lot cheaper with less technology a decade ago with a bunch of college students in less time. We didn't spend two years playing around with 3D models. We started cutting metal once the major parts were finalized. The prototypes made were never meant to be commercialized but as a stepping stone to something that might.