Honda Civic vs Toyota Innova

**Egan101** · May 16th, 2020 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by timming_gear

Pano pa kaya pag naka remap yung ecu ng 2.8 na Innova baka kahit b18 na civic mag pahirapan sila. [emoji16]

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The B18C is rated at around 200hp and if paired with a small sedan frame will be more like a BRZ/86 in straightline performance. Someone posted above of his Sorento against an 86 and the disparity in weight was the clincher in favor to the 86.

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**hardwang** · May 16th, 2020 04:55 PM

The civic 1.8L is adequate, a little underpowered even. I can think of some subcompacts which can beat it easily. The civic with the 1.5L turbo though, now that's quick. Too bad it's overpriced as hell.

**Egan101** · May 16th, 2020 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by hardwang

The civic 1.8L is adequate, a little underpowered even. I can think of some subcompacts which can beat it easily. The civic with the 1.5L turbo though, now that's quick. Too bad it's overpriced as hell.

I don’t think the Civic 1.8L is underpowered. What more for the likes of other compacts with 1.6L or 1.5L NA engines? Most subcompacts are around the same in performance (or even less) except for the quicker ones like the Fiesta Ecoboost, Accent CRDi, and Mazda2 HB.

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**hardwang** · May 16th, 2020 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Egan101

I don’t think the Civic 1.8L is underpowered. What more for the likes of other compacts with 1.6L or 1.5L NA engines? Most subcompacts are around the same in performance (or even less) except for the quicker ones like the Fiesta Ecoboost, Accent CRDi, and Mazda2 HB.

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A bit underpowered for a car which has a 1.8L I mean. Take note of the word “bit”. Di naman gaano...

Anyway, sa Civic FD dati, pwede but for the newer body with heavier weight, sana 2.0L na lang. Also... everyone keeps forgetting the City and the Jazz with a manual transmission can probably outrun the Civic 1.8L. But I get the point, di naman pabilisan talaga ang purpose. For a point A to point B car, I believe it is adequate.

**babkalakal** · May 16th, 2020 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by 17Sphynx17

My guess with the decision is that Innova will sell, regardless if with a 2.4 or 2.8 engine. However, from a parts standpoint, only the Fortuner TOTL would have the 2.8L in the 4x4 trim which would be a pain in inventory management with slow moving parts, given that there is low demand for the TOTL Fortuner vs the base and mid trims that use the 2.4L.

I think they chose the 2.8L for the Innova for that and axed an option for the 2.4L so that buyers would have no choice if they want an Innova. This also ensures that 2.8L parts won't stay stuck in the warehouse.

And say, the current 2.8L stays and they did launch a 2.4L Innova. I'd assume they place that as a possible "lower" base trim since the current 2.8 lineup exists. That would lower its price and place it closer to the mid trim of the Rush giving potential buyers too many options.

I think giving too many options is actually a bad thing. Keep it as simple as you can so buyers can decide easier and it also helps Toyota Phils bottom line. =)

My two cents.

thank you very insightful inputs. toyota can get a lot of leeway on pricing because of their brand name equity i guess. toyota already has a lot of overlap in terms of pricing vios corolla avanza rush dikit dikit ang presyo depende lang sa trim.

**babkalakal** · May 16th, 2020 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by hardwang

The civic 1.8L is adequate, a little underpowered even. I can think of some subcompacts which can beat it easily. The civic with the 1.5L turbo though, now that's quick. Too bad it's overpriced as hell.

Matter of perspective siguro. I understand why you might say that. Pero I have ridden in my fair share of sedans comparable to the civic and I do not think its underpowered in any way also. Maybe the cvt plays a part.

sorry just realized medyo off topic na pala

**ice15** · May 17th, 2020 01:35 PM

seeing this race is like seeing the F-150 vs Cyrbertruck tug of war

not an expert, but I always find Toyota's max rpm/power around 3-4k rpm... compared to Honda na around 5.5-6.5k rpm - this can normally be felt when overtaking in local provincial roads. - hence during HS days... mas madaling "paiyakin" ang Toyota

2nd... if you keep on racing both... I don't think the Innova's diesel engine will last as long as the Honda's Petrol engine... pero mauuna sigurong masira yung CVT than the conventional A/T

3rd stopping power... being a racer sa Mindanao and Macapagal YEARSSSSS ago... I'll be more confident stopping on a Civic than an Innova kapag may biglang car na sumulpot sa harap mo.

4th handling... I always prefer to drive a car because of this reason, faster/better cornering

5th... pogi factor... I will always say mas pogi yung car... my dad will say kasya 6 na chicks sa MPV

***
quick question na matagal nang nasa isip ko...

Innova uses a de-tuned 2.8 engine thats the same as the Fortuner.

Can you swap the computer box of the Innova to get the Fortuner's power? - kahit sa sites ng Toyota Malaysia/India/Indonesia wala akong makitang info on this.

**babkalakal** · May 17th, 2020 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by ice15

seeing this race is like seeing the F-150 vs Cyrbertruck tug of war

not an expert, but I always find Toyota's max rpm/power around 3-4k rpm... compared to Honda na around 5.5-6.5k rpm - this can normally be felt when overtaking in local provincial roads. - hence during HS days... mas madaling "paiyakin" ang Toyota

2nd... if you keep on racing both... I don't think the Innova's diesel engine will last as long as the Honda's Petrol engine... pero mauuna sigurong masira yung CVT than the conventional A/T

3rd stopping power... being a racer sa Mindanao and Macapagal YEARSSSSS ago... I'll be more confident stopping on a Civic than an Innova kapag may biglang car na sumulpot sa harap mo.

4th handling... I always prefer to drive a car because of this reason, faster/better cornering

5th... pogi factor... I will always say mas pogi yung car... my dad will say kasya 6 na chicks sa MPV

***
quick question na matagal nang nasa isip ko...

Innova uses a de-tuned 2.8 engine thats the same as the Fortuner.

Can you swap the computer box of the Innova to get the Fortuner's power? - kahit sa sites ng Toyota Malaysia/India/Indonesia wala akong makitang info on this.

do not quote me on this pero i think the innova is not detuned at all. siguro manufacturing tolerances from engine to engine pwede but sa brochure lang ata sila nagkaiba?

**Egan101** · May 17th, 2020 01:59 PM

Most Diesel engines achieve peak power around 4k rpm while achieving peak torque between 2k to 4k rpm. It applies to most car manufacturers, not just Toyota. Most Diesel engines are limited to 5k rpm. This is the reason some people would say that a diesel feels quicker as peak torque is readily available at lower rpms.

For NA engines used in most small cars and crossovers, peak torque is achieved at 4k while peak power is reached at 6k rpm (just below redline). Some NA engines which have redlines of 8k rpm will have its peak power at 7k rpm. There is no point trying to eke out performance from a gas NA engine if you are scared to rev it past 3k rpm.

For turbo gas engines, peak torque is achieved between 1500 to 5k rpm depending on manufacturer. Peak power is available from 5k to 7k rpm depending on the engine. If you aim for performance, this is the best option as you get peak torque on a wider rpm band plus higher power output, not to mention the more ways to tune its ECU. Just consider Merc’s 2.0L turbo gas engine which has peak output of 415hp/500Nm, that’s a lot compared to older engines which has twice the displacement.

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**ice15** · May 17th, 2020 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by babkalakal

do not quote me on this pero i think the innova is not detuned at all. siguro manufacturing tolerances from engine to engine pwede but sa brochure lang ata sila nagkaiba?

hmmm... specs sheets

Innova 2.8
171 / 3,400
360 / 1,200-3,400

Fortuner 2.8
174 hp / 3,400
450 / 1,600 - 2,400

so Fort has higher torque at lower RPM...

I wonder if anyone has tested these figures sa dyno