Forester 2.5XT vs Tucson ReVGT 2.0L 4WD Premium

**niky** · June 14th, 2011 09:47 AM

Turbo problems? You're more likely to have them with the variable geometry unit in the Tucson... those are more finicky than the regular turbo that Subaru uses.

Originally Posted by imperialv

Correction.. you only need 95 for the fxt.. I'm using XCS for my FXT...

ASX handles better than the FXT??? Curiousity lang po...???

Lastly, if you're the type of guy who doesn't care about gas and would like to mod the car.. The FXT has a lot of option compared to the tucson...

The ASX is lighter and lower, which makes it feel more sure-footed and agile. It is also more compact, with a lighter engine, to boot. This gives it a lower polar moment of inertia... which is especially noticeable in turns and slaloms. More so for the FWD ASX than the AWD.

In a drag race, the FXT, obviously, would win. But the ASX, if given the same power, would likely be better on track. (This is stock-to-stock suspension... obviously, the FXT would be better with an aftermarket suspension). The FXT is too tall, too soft (for the power) and doesn't have enough brakes. The ASX is just perfect. In fact, the ASX is good enough that I wonder if Mitsubishi will eventually make an ASX Ralliart edition, like they did with the old Outlander.

The hindrance is the ASX's CVT if you're modifying it... and you can't get the AWD in MT. A turbocharged FWD ASX MT would be fun, but would too easily wash out into understeer on track on corner exit without an LSD. Kaya nga, Ralliart edition sana, which would give it the dual-clutch, all-wheel drive and LSD* of the Ralliart Lancer, and make it more wieldy on the faster corners of the track.

*The center differential and rear LSD on the EVO and STI is what gives people the impression that AWD handles better. These allow you to put the power down mid-corner without causing understeer. But a lighter and lower car can brake later, corner harder and accelerate faster, all else being equal.

The one thing lacking in modification potential for the Tucson, locally, is suspension mods. And it needs it... the suspension for the R-VGT is just too damn soft for fast driving.

You can already get exhaust, intake, intercooler, meth injection and chip mods that should give the local Tucson about 30-50 horses more... but I don't know how well you can do this with the KDM, especially considering how compromised our fuel quality is locally (and it's not just the EURO sulfur levels... it's the problem of contaminants and water)... To boost a Tucson to FXT levels, marginal na ang reliability ng fuel system, to the point that you might cause issues with the ECU...

Whereas with the FXT, 50 more hp is a piece of cake, 100 hp just takes a little more money and 150 more takes a little more money and a willingness to sacrifice your AT for the sake of the thrill.

-

In the end, though... if all you want is entertaining speed and a lot of toys, the Tucson is very, very good. If you want outright speed, the FXT is the best. If you're the kind of guy who comes home every night with all tires bald (like me), well... I'm waiting for the Ralliart ASX...

**foresterx** · June 14th, 2011 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by imperialv

For the FXT, i have not hear any owner encountered a problem with the turbo.. Unless nag track sila and over modded ang kotse.. But for the stock engine, no complains yet..... Sa SCP and Subysoc wala pa akong nababasa na nag complain

Minor cosmetic pa lang revision for the 2012 fxt... may mga web release na... Besides, the 2011 has a some new upgrades... :-)

Ang major advantage ng HYUNDAI over SUBARU is the parts... Sobrang mura ang HYUNDAI specially if you know how to source the parts...

yup there are no known problems in the FXT in fact the only subaru that has known problems is the wrx, pero mostly user error and i'm basing that not only in scp or suso but also on other subaru forums especially nasioc which is the biggest subaru community.

also yes the asx is sharper than the FXT even the outlander, i can't really explain why but here's a good read from IWSTI.com

Dollar for dollar, the EVO (4G63 powered, not enough of the new 4B11's out there to know the verdict on them) will make more power than the STI. There's a few very basic reasons why:

-They have a larger turbo from the factory. Plain and simple, larger turbo=more potential out of the stock turbo.

-The 4G63 is cast iron, while we have aluminum blocks that are sleeved. By nature, cast iron blocks are more robust, and can handle more boost without needing to be sleeved (people don't really sleeve iron blocks).

-Inline motors are more robust than boxers. Due to their design, boxer motors don't dissipate heat as well as an inline. This is the reason why they're typically tuned more conservatively than inlines. Take a look over in the dyno section, as well as over on EvolutionM.net's dyno section, and you'll see people tune EVO's at leaner AFR's. The reason for this is, since boxers don't dissipate heat as well, they have to run them richer in order to cool the heads to stave off detonation. This is why typically, with all things equal (displacement, port on head(s), cams, compression ratio ect) running the same turbo, boost pressures & degrees of timing, an inline will make more power, as they will be able to run leaner AFR's on pump gas. It's sad, but the truth. To make the same power, on the same setup (turbo) on pump gas, Subie's are pretty much always going to have to push more boost/timing advance to make the same power as an EVO. Our only real saving grace is the fact we run big bore motors, so in stock form, we have more displacement to work with.

-We have 2 heads, and 4 cams. An Evo has 1 head and 2 cams. This is a no-brainer. It will obviously be cheaper to swap out 2 cams & have a port job on 1 head done, rather than working on 2 heads, and replacing 4 cams. Not to mention, their head is more easily accessible than our heads.

-Small things like for staving off heat soak, they come with FMIC's stock. With the same displacement, they can also spool a turbo faster due to a lack of exhaust piping leading to the turbine housing. We have a manifold on the bottom side of our motors, 2 of the runners converge into a cross-pipe, which goes to the collector for the other 2 cylinders, which is routed to the up-pipe, and finally into the turbine housing. Their turbo comes straight off the exhaust manifold. They have short runners (MUCH shorter than ours), that route exhaust gases to their turbine housings "quicker" for lack of a better term. Again, our only saving grace in that department is our larger displacement motors (thank God for Subaru's big bore!).

This would lead you to ask, why in the world would Subaru use a boxer motor? There's actually a few REALLY good reasons for the boxer... although none of them have to do with making big power. The first being, low center of gravity. That's probably the biggest reason. Since the boxer lays "flat", in can be positioned in a much lower position in the engine bay than an inline-4. Lower center of gravity translates into increased handling.

Then, there's the fact that since it only has the "length" of about a 2 cylinder, it can be positioned further back in the engine bay, and also works wonderfully with Subaru's personal flavor of AWD, as the motor is positioned "longitudinally" like a RWD car, with the crank protruding from the rear of the motor, pointing towards the rear of the car. This allows Subaru to connect their transmission to the rear of the motor, allowing for better weight distribution, and since the transmission is located directly behind the motor, in the center of the car, they can run perfectly equal length half shafts to power the front wheels, and the driveshaft to go straight back to the rear diff, in what Subaru calls "Symmetrical AWD". This is a large part of the reason why they have so much grip, unlike many cars which are more or less just FWD cars with a RWD assist that they call "AWD".

So really, the reason's why Subaru uses the boxer setup is to increase grip & handling, very little to do with horsepower. For a while, I believe the WRC even had talks about making boxer motors illegal, although those talks went away, as the boxer obviously hasn't been doing Subaru any favors here lately haha.

So then you might ask... "But I thought the EVO handled better?"... and that's where things get complicated. Subaru designed a street car with heavy rally car roots, a car that dominates Group N rally competition (Group N is close to stock), whereas the EVO was designed more as a street car than a rally car. Put them on tarmac, and the EVO has an edge... put them in the dirt, and the tables turn. This is do to Subaru making the STI have a long travel suspension, that's a bit overdampened for the street. The EVO has much stiffer lower suspension (thicker sway bars), and spring/damper rates that are more road course friendly (but not by much, it's still damn close), not to mention the old EVO's ran a multi-link rear compared to the old STI's simple inverted strut. Although they're really not that far apart... as a matter of fact, IIRC, it was a couple years ago, that C&D did a road course test with both (2005 I think?!?)... the EVO won stock vs stock, but not by much... then they put them on the same tires.... and the STI won (not by much)... then they added water to their test course, and in a few of their tests (acceleration being the biggest), it showed the STI's traction advantage, as the wet track allowed the STI to win by considerable margins, owing to it's superior AWD setup... but that's another reason why the EVO VIII/IX does so well on road course stock vs stock (vs old STI), it has wider (235 vs 225), stickier tires. When you put them on the same tires, the tides can turn quickly... don't take my word for it, see how they stack up against each other in A-stock, as STI's tend to do a bit better.

Although I've driven both... and the biggest reason why the EVO is regarded as a better handling car... steering. Due to the placement of the Subie's boxer motor, there's not as much of a direct path to mount the steering rack, leading to somewhat of a numb feeling at the wheel of an STI, at least when compared to the EVO. The EVO is more direct, it gives back more road feedback, it's more confidence inspiring. Even if both cars can take a corner at the same speeds, in the EVO, you'll have more confidence through the steering wheel doing so.... whereas the STI takes more faith, but IMO, is ultimately more rewarding as a drive

**niky** · June 14th, 2011 12:56 PM

Nearly forgot about the Outlander V6... yeah... that was a pretty decent handling car... AWD, V6. Give the V6 a little more power and it could have given the FXT a run for its money (at high speed, at least... nothing beats turbo torque at low rpms).

Even US reviewers are a bit disappointed with the handling of the stock FXT... but again, there are aftermarket options to make it better. I really hope that they eventually do an STi version of the car.

Eherm... of course, though, for the intended use, the FXT's handling is more than good enough.

**JackFlash** · June 14th, 2011 05:26 PM

Thanks very much for all the comments and suggestions. Sabi ko na nga ba. Lalo akong mahihirapan pag binasa ko yung mga sinulat niyo.

Test dorve the FXT last weekend, and it was pretty impressive. MI can have a unit ready in the color I want in as quickly as 2 weeks. Scheduling a test drive was easy. I texted on a Wed., got confirmation and on Sat, I was flogging the SUV - from EDSA's potholes to better paved roads in White Plains - Green Meadows where I respected no humps or granny-like drivers. At the end of the test, the fuel efficiency meter read 18.1L/100km. Yikes!

On the other hand, Hyundai Global City requires submission of a scanned or photocopy of your driver's license, then the SA will inform you of the test drive schedule. When confirmed, you have to go to their head office at KPMG Bldg, Ayala Ave. coz that's where the unit will be.

Fulfilled the requirements last week, at the same time I called MI, and up to now, no test drive unit available. As the car is selling like hotcakes, everything that comes in is immediately lapped up by their customers. The SA also mentioned that the ReVGT Premium is one of the rare variants that gets shipped here. Ave. waiting time is 3 mos., but with a P10K reservation fee, the waiting can be shorter, while choice of color will depend on what is available. So at the moment, I rely on the vicarious experience of reading the brochure + lots of imagination.

Some say that Subaru's maintenance costs are expensive. So the SA gave me a price table to give me an idea. Tucson ReVGT owners, pls advise how this compares with your PMS costs:

1st 1600 km or 1 month: P4,424* / P7,574**
10,000 km or 6 mos: P6,343* / P9,493**
20,000 km or 12 mos: P7,093* / P10,243**
30,000 km or 18 mos: P6,343* / P9,493**
40,000 km or 24 mos: P27,306* / 30,456**
... then cycle repeats itself for the next 20,000 kms.
*Shell or Motul Xcess
** Motul 300V

**Starex_Gold** · June 14th, 2011 05:34 PM

1000 Kms
DEALER: Hyundai Dasmarinas Cavite
MODEL: 2010 Tucson CRDi R eVGT Premium 4WD A/T
Cost Breakdown:
Engine Oil: OWS 8 Liters Semi Synthetic Oil = 3,080 Php
Gasket-Oil Plug = 35 Php
Oil Filter = Free
Total amount due: 3,115.00 Php

5000 Kms
DEALER: Hyundai Dasmarinas Cavite
MODEL: 2010 Tucson CRDi R eVGT Premium 4WD A/T
Cost Breakdown:
Oil Filter - 1,104 PHP
Washer - 35 Php
Engine Oil - (MOTUL CRDi Specific 5W-40, 8Li.) 4,200 Php (From Reepicheep)
Total Amount Due: 5,339 Php

10000 Kms
DEALER: Hyundai Las Pinas (in front of SM Southmall)
MODEL: 2010 Tucson CRDi R-eVGT GLS-Premium 4WD A/T
Cost Breakdown:
Labor Charges Due - 1,237.50 Php
Brake Cleaner - 232.14 Php
Injector Cleaner - 276.79 Php
Misc. Materials - 160.71 Php
---------------------------
= 2,136.00 Php

Parts & Engine Oil from Seiring:
Kixx Turbo RV Synthetic oil 10W-40 - 1,000 Php / Gallon - 2 Gallons needed
Air Filter Element - 500 Php
Oil Filter Element - 500 Php
--------------------------
= 3,000.00 Php

Total Amount Due: 5,136.00 Php

That's my PMS summary so far.
__________________________

Some dealership still have the R-eVGT Premium variant. AFAIK nasa agent ko pa yung isang Gray Titanium sa Dasmarinas Cavite.

Anong color ba gusto mo, I'm willing to help if you decide to get the Tucson R-eVGT Premium. Sa Stockyard mismo tayo kukuha ng unit.

**niky** · June 14th, 2011 06:00 PM

Those PMS costs for the FXT are very reasonable, considering they're for synthetic oil for a 2.5 turbo every 10k kms.

-

Gasoline engines will usually cost less in terms of maintenance nowadays because of the 10k intervals on many of them. Local diesels puro 5k lang intervals, so far as I've seen.

-

Sa Tucson, parang maganda ang gun-metal na kulay.

**Starex_Gold** · June 14th, 2011 06:03 PM

Ito ba, Niky? :naughty2:

My Tucson with the HARI unit (the one tested by Niky haha)

**niky** · June 14th, 2011 06:06 PM

Yup. Yun un'. Nakakahinayang nga ibalik, eh... parang gusto kong i-declare as carnapped...

**renzo_d10** · June 14th, 2011 06:06 PM

Tatay naman yata ng Hyundai may bili niyan eh..

**imperialv** · June 14th, 2011 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Starex_Gold

1000 Kms
DEALER: Hyundai Dasmarinas Cavite
MODEL: 2010 Tucson CRDi R eVGT Premium 4WD A/T
Cost Breakdown:
Engine Oil: OWS 8 Liters Semi Synthetic Oil = 3,080 Php
Gasket-Oil Plug = 35 Php
Oil Filter = Free
Total amount due: 3,115.00 Php

5000 Kms
DEALER: Hyundai Dasmarinas Cavite
MODEL: 2010 Tucson CRDi R eVGT Premium 4WD A/T
Cost Breakdown:
Oil Filter - 1,104 PHP
Washer - 35 Php
Engine Oil - (MOTUL CRDi Specific 5W-40, 8Li.) 4,200 Php (From Reepicheep)
Total Amount Due: 5,339 Php

10000 Kms
DEALER: Hyundai Las Pinas (in front of SM Southmall)
MODEL: 2010 Tucson CRDi R-eVGT GLS-Premium 4WD A/T
Cost Breakdown:
Labor Charges Due - 1,237.50 Php
Brake Cleaner - 232.14 Php
Injector Cleaner - 276.79 Php
Misc. Materials - 160.71 Php
---------------------------
= 2,136.00 Php

Parts & Engine Oil from Seiring:
Kixx Turbo RV Synthetic oil 10W-40 - 1,000 Php / Gallon - 2 Gallons needed
Air Filter Element - 500 Php
Oil Filter Element - 500 Php
--------------------------
= 3,000.00 Php

Total Amount Due: 5,136.00 Php

That's my PMS summary so far.
__________________________

Some dealership still have the R-eVGT Premium variant. AFAIK nasa agent ko pa yung isang Gray Titanium sa Dasmarinas Cavite.

Anong color ba gusto mo, I'm willing to help if you decide to get the Tucson R-eVGT Premium. Sa Stockyard mismo tayo kukuha ng unit.

Kixx Turbo RV Synthetic oil 10W-40

Tried this motor oil for my Santa Fe and Kia Carnival... mas gusto ko performance... ok siya pang 5K PMS, at least cheaper.... Yung pang GAS variant ang hindi ko pa na try...