audio set-up for beginners [continued]

[jhnkvn]

Good day mga sirs.

I would like to ask, anyone here have experience using Thunder Audio subwoofers? How'd this compare to Targa or JBL subwoofers?

Oh, and anybody experienced having seps which lack bass compared to OEM or coaxials? I put in amplified ( amp is 125w * 4ohms) 6.5" Infinity Reference seps in front and I placed my old, flooded and unamplified 6.5" blaupunkts coaxials at the back. I've noticed that the Blaupunkts push more midbass than the Infinity. All doors are dampened and sealed, and I don't have any HPF or LPF running. Ganito ba talaga ito?

1. Nope.

2. There's actually a lot of factors.
- the Infinity References might be less sensitive and have less output compared to the Balupunkts at the back.
- any stock amplifier would give out 25W or so watts. As long as you're not pushing the volume, 25W from the head unit and 25W from the external amplifier is the same (although distortion levels are higher from the head unit) so it's probably related to #1.
- you might be pushing the volume and causing the Blaupunkts to distort. If you aren't trained to detect them, you'll find them they're "louder than usual". This is especially in the case of sub-bass and mid-bass frequencies.

[crazy_boy]

*crazy_boy
Kindly do the separates -> deaden front doors muna. Then you can change your head unit and add an amplifier afterwards.

Sir, got it. Thanks for your advice.

I have another question. What if my plan is only a simple upgrade from stock. Target is just clearer sound. Is it also good idea to just deaden the front doors and add an amplifier to stock speakers and HU?

Thanks again

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[nivraarvin]

Pag nag pa deaden ng doors, mahihirapan ba mag pa PDR(paintless dent repair)? Baka kasi wala ng butas kung saan isusuott ung PDR tools na gagamitin.

[jhnkvn]

*crazyboy
If the idea is a simple upgrade, then just replace stock paper speaker cones to aftermarket ones. Even cheap ones would do because there's still a huge gap between stock door speakers versus aftermarket ones. Just by the size of the motor itself speaks about the quality. Now, the uglier the car the more important this is. Driving a Vios? It's cool to change. Driving a Bentley? Might not be a good idea.

*nivraarvin
I don't believe so.

[TheMikProject]

1. Nope.

2. There's actually a lot of factors.
- the Infinity References might be less sensitive and have less output compared to the Balupunkts at the back.
- any stock amplifier would give out 25W or so watts. As long as you're not pushing the volume, 25W from the head unit and 25W from the external amplifier is the same (although distortion levels are higher from the head unit) so it's probably related to #1.
- you might be pushing the volume and causing the Blaupunkts to distort. If you aren't trained to detect them, you'll find them they're "louder than usual". This is especially in the case of sub-bass and mid-bass frequencies.

Thank you for the reply!

-The Infinity's (Infinity Reference 6530cs) have a rated sensitivity of 93db, while the blaupunkts (Blaupunkt THX 652) have 90db.
-I'll observe them again for distortion.

[jhnkvn]

Thank you for the reply!

-The Infinity's (Infinity Reference 6530cs) have a rated sensitivity of 93db, while the blaupunkts (Blaupunkt THX 652) have 90db.
-I'll observe them again for distortion.

There's also the possibility that the input voltages are different. Level match your system using the Infinity sep's amplifier gain controls. It may also be a case of a fader being implemented (so check that too). Like I said, tons of possibilities. Best to have a car audio shop check if you're worried. If you aren't, fade it to the front so that the music isn't being steered to the back too much.

[TheMikProject]

There's also the possibility that the input voltages are different. Level match your system using the Infinity sep's amplifier gain controls. It may also be a case of a fader being implemented (so check that too). Like I said, tons of possibilities. Best to have a car audio shop check if you're worried. If you aren't, fade it to the front so that the music isn't being steered to the back too much.

I played around with my headunit fader and found that the sound was good at 0 front and back and 0 left and right. The back kinda fills the lack of bass the Infinity's are missing. I don't know if my amplifier has a fader though. (sound magus ck75)

It was Mickey's autosound who installed it and it was Mickey who set the gain controls. I didn't bother to touch it anymore since he knows those better than me. When I asked him about the lack of bass, he suggested that a subwoofer is really the solution and that seps shouldn't be handling much bass anyways. (They checked everything again though to see if they placed the crossovers wrong, etc) But since I still don't have a sub, the lack of bass bothers me. Hindi kaya may defect talaga yung speakers ko?

Btw, has anybody have experience using Infinity Reference subs? I saw their reviews online and looks like they're really good SQ subs. Are they really that good? (my seps were also praised in online forums, but when I installed them, they seem to lack bass that other online forumers didn't have a problem with)

[jhnkvn]

*TheMikProject

Aha, alright. More or less alam ko na why.

No worries, your amplifier does not have any fader controls on it :D If your installer is Mickey, then don't fiddle with the gain control anymore. It isn't a volume knob as most newbies use it for. If the sound is being steered towards the back, just use your fader.

What Mickey says is true. If you're looking for bass, nothing beats the displacement a subwoofer can provide. To provide the equivalent decibel output of a conventional 12" sub, you need to throw a huge amount of power to the midbass. Although not directly, I usually tell newbies that a typical ratio of 100W of subwoofer output equates into 500W of midbass at the low frequencies of 40-50hz. That's how efficient a larger cone area does in producing bass.

The reason why the Infinity has less bass than Blaupunkts would probably be because of your crossover frequency. Knowing Mickey, he'll be crossing the Infinity separates quite high. The typical setup has a cutoff of 80hz but depending on your situation, he might be cutting them higher at 100hz. This will explain your "lack of bass" feeling compared to the Blaupunkts which is probably set a bit lower like 70hz (trust me, 10hz is a lot). For what it's worth, most sound systems need to at least hit 50hz for them to describe the bass as "fulfilling".

But don't immediately charge into Mickey's place and start demanding a refund. This is because he's correct. The most sensible way is to really buy a subwoofer (and an amplifier, wirings, box, etc. that goes with it) so you can get your "bass down low" feeling fulfilled. The reason for the high cutoff is because not all separates are created equal.. this is where the "you get what you pay for" scenario comes in.

Your typical midbass purchased from separate components would usually have a short voice coil, a small motor, and low power requirements - everything your typical budget minded consumer needs because they're unwilling to pay five digits for a speaker. Mickey sets the LPF high to protect your speakers because your everyday consumer would crank the system and drive the midbass hard. The problem with this is that the speaker driver itself would reach their mechanical limits quickly and.. poof.. there goes a fried voice coil, a misaligned motor, etc.

[renzo_d10]

Hi John,

Ask ko lang ano, stock pa ba HU mo?

Sent from my 3210 using Tapatalk HD Premium

[jhnkvn]

If you want the no-subwoofer-but-great-bass, you'll usually need to fork out a large sum of money for great components. Take a good example at the midbass of my KRX3. It's built like a mini-subwoofer and has a net weight of 5lbs each. Sadly, a KRX3 component set would rob your wallet 68 grand. But at least you know where the moolah went :naughty2:



As for your subwoofer of choice, I'll be handing it to you plain and simple: it won't really matter. Subwoofer performance is more closely related with box enclosure and tuning rather than the actual drivers themselves. Although I've invested on a 20 grand subwoofer, I'm an avid fan of cheap subwoofers.

Shop owners will usually push you for a more expensive subwoofer purchase. I'm probably no different if I'm an installer myself. But alas I'm simply a person deeply engrossed in my hobby . I'll give you a brief low down on subwoofer enclosures:

1. Sealed subwoofer is usually the easiest to do and most recommended to do for SQ applications.
- if you're doing a small sealed subwoofer, it'll be more inefficient and would usually play higher.
- if you're doing a large sealed subwoofer, it'll be more efficient and be able to play lower.

2. Ported boxes will be tuned towards a certain frequency (usually 38hz) and at that frequency, they are extremely efficient and would play that frequency 3 decibels more than the others (what's 3 decibel difference? It's like your power going from 500W to 2500W). But due to the decibel peak, is usually preferred for LnC/SPL applications because it's hard to control the peak unless you have tools to do so (ex. extensive equalizing)

To sum it, uhh... ganito nalang:
1. If you're the type who doesn't like "bayo" but likes good controlled bass - ask Mickey what are his preferred subwoofers for sealed applications and have him make a box that fits your limitations (trust me, a 2 cu.ft box takes a lot of trunk space.. this is why I reduced mine from 1.7cu ft to just 1 cu.ft)
2. If you're the type who loves 50 Cent, Lil Jon, etc. - go ask Mickey what are his preferred subwoofers for ported applications.

P.S. I love JBL GT5-12s.

P.S.#2 If you'll be visiting Mickey soon and is interested to chat, my next drop by at Mach2Audio (3mins walk from Mickeys) would probably be in Thursday or Friday. I'm doing my third rebuild there, you see. Just PM me for my number or something.