"HELP improve Anfra 2007"

[safeorigin]

...and pretty soon, they'd be begging us to be corporate partners. pity, pity, pity. lucky us.

[pitbullz]

wow...galing naman ng mga bumb....este indian brothers natin :D bakit sila kaya nila gumawa nun scorpio na mahindra tayo hindi? eh sa tagal na natin sa pag kopya ng jeep dapat tagal na natin naka acquire ng know-how

[niky]

I don't know if all the CAMPI members will be shaking... it's only a select few that are deeply into the market Anfra and the MVPMAP are targetting with the PhUV program... makers like Mitsubishi, Isuzu and Toyota, to be precise.

But like I've said... it's attention to detail that will make or break the PHUV project. There should be less of a sense of "puwede na" and more of a sense of "ang galing!"... and not from those of us who are "rah-rah-rah-ing" them along, but from the workers and supervisors who construct these vehicles.

I know that the workmanship and attention to detail needed is possible. It just takes corporate willpower to enforce it.

Hey, dprox, do you know why Ford/Mazda pulled out? Was it because they transferred capacity to Thailand, or was it because they pulled out of that market segment?

[AG4]

wow...galing naman ng mga bumb....este indian brothers natin :D bakit sila kaya nila gumawa nun scorpio na mahindra tayo hindi? eh sa tagal na natin sa pag kopya ng jeep dapat tagal na natin naka acquire ng know-how

Kaiser/AMC gave Mahindra access to the designs/technology/manufacturing to make their Jeeps, they were licensed and not copied visually.
They took it step by step, first with the assembly of CKD Jeep kits, then actual manufacturing, then they added local modifications and upgrades etc.

About their progress?
Mahindra teamed up with Renault for the Mahindra-Renault Logan, based on Renault's Romanian built Dacia Logan.

Its not that easy to engineer a modern car on your own from scratch when you don't have experience...

[jpdm]

Its not that easy to engineer a modern car on your own from scratch when you don't have experience...

I agree. That's why I think its a right move for Anfra to work with JAC of China. I hope they will start improving the production units that they will sell in the market in the future.

[dprox]

I don't know if all the CAMPI members will be shaking... it's only a select few that are deeply into the market Anfra and the MVPMAP are targetting with the PhUV program... makers like Mitsubishi, Isuzu and Toyota, to be precise.

By that I meant CAMPI members' involvement with bigboys who from time to time manifest the possiblity of moving operations elsewhere. I don't think the lowly PhUV would be - by any stretch of imagination - a serious threat to them.

... do you know why Ford/Mazda pulled out? Was it because they transferred capacity to Thailand, or was it because they pulled out of that market segment?

AFAIK, on Ford's instructions, Mazda pulled out of its agreement with Francisco for the assembly of the B2000 pickup series in order to make way for the Ford Ranger, essentially the same platform with a new body for the Year 2000. Breach of contract, no? Maybe you can access the court documents. I suppose that would have been reason enough for Ford to move. Maybe you know which one came first - the decision to move to Thailand or the breach of contract. Anyway, the original point at issue is whether or not it is wise to joint venture with bigboys.

[A121]

if you don't ask help from the local schools and universities on R&D, and local industries, you'll be stuck on the same old undeveloped platform for years to come.

OT: Chulalongkorn University gave a talk in our school last wednesday, and it seems that their research facilities are well funded by their local industries and government. Most of their funds come from local industries, as far as I remember. They are really light years ahead in terms of R&D, especially when it comes to transportation, when compared to my school. The Philippines really lags behind in terms of R&D.

[safeorigin]

regarding the R&D of vehicles in the Philippines, the real factor is motivation and funding. people cant make anything without dough. however, i do believe that with this group, funding would be less significant because everybody has the same goal - which is also our greatest motivation.

[wildthing]

i'd rather say it is more of the PASSION to do it ang mas magaling na motivation.

money can be earned, and if one would really be quite ingenious, there are lots of other materials that can be used to do a really good prototype.

[A121]

I don't know but you need a lot of equipment in testing and retesting the prototype you've made. This is where good funding comes in.

[safeorigin]

well, yeah but with a good number of sponsors, it would be possible to conduct numerous tests. German sponsor for hire please...

[niky]

By that I meant CAMPI members' involvement with bigboys who from time to time manifest the possiblity of moving operations elsewhere. I don't think the lowly PhUV would be - by any stretch of imagination - a serious threat to them.

AFAIK, on Ford's instructions, Mazda pulled out of its agreement with Francisco for the assembly of the B2000 pickup series in order to make way for the Ford Ranger, essentially the same platform with a new body for the Year 2000. Breach of contract, no? Maybe you can access the court documents. I suppose that would have been reason enough for Ford to move. Maybe you know which one came first - the decision to move to Thailand or the breach of contract. Anyway, the original point at issue is whether or not it is wise to joint venture with bigboys.

Well, that's the con of globalization... it technically makes it easier to compete in foreign markets, but what it does is make it easier for these multinationals to pack up shop and move elsewhere, too.

But sooner or later, we either have to hook up with one of the "big boys" as a source of cheap parts... otherwise we'll always be running at a price handicap in terms of running equipment. Yes, it's always possible for the source of parts to dry up, but that's always a problem for any maker dependent on another for parts... it's happened to a lot of indie manufacturers in the US and Europe, too..

Stupid move on Ford's part... if they'd subcon'd Francisco to make low-cost vehicles for them (ala L300 FB or Isuzu IPV), they could have a much bigger market share than they do now.

[safeorigin]

maybe it's their idea of "minimizing" their corp.

[niky]

Who knows? While I'm a fan of Ford's Mazda arm, I'm flabbergasted by some of the decisions top management has made in the past... decisions which have put Ford (and GM, for that matter) in the pickle they're in now.

But back to the Anfra... cosmetically, there isn't much we can do except a little modernization on the fascia and tail, not until we know how they're producing the shells and if any modification can be made to the dies or machines.

At least they're starting from a better position than MVPMAP, wherein they have a fairly modern design to base their car on, and aren't building from the ground up, but without firsthand experience of the car and an assay of the production facilities, we can't say for sure what improvements will be cost effective.

Other possible improvements might exist in terms of refinement or suspension tuning... Suspension tuning will be as simple as suggesting what kind of shocks and alignment are dialled in, but refinement (sound insulation, etcetera) costs money. Working within the budget, we may consider the drivetrain choice to be de facto, but we can also make suggestions on exhaust routing and hardware, as well as the set-up of the shifter, pedals and steering hardware.

Who knows? There might even be ways to improve the product while still keeping to a budget... ;)

[Vahltomotive]

90% pinoy made parts..rush project cguro toh kaya inde na pinag isipan yung front grille

[scharnhorst]

Are those chinese engines they're putting on the PhUVs any good? I guess most would agree that the 1.8 liter diesel would be inadequate at hauling things cross-country and up mountains, but what about the durability?

OT: I've seen a foton blizzard recently, and it's a dmax with a 4jb1

[dprox]

Are those chinese engines they're putting on the PhUVs any good? I guess most would agree that the 1.8 liter diesel would be inadequate at hauling things cross-country and up mountains, but what about the durability?

OT: I've seen a foton blizzard recently, and it's a dmax with a 4jb1

I somehow get this eerie feeling chinese engines are going to improve much faster than when japanese and korean engines were starting out. The mainland market alone produces enough roadtesting to learn fast and get things right pronto.

OT: Notice how the big automaking countries have a history of belligerence and colonialization? UK, Germany, Japan, Italy, Korea, have enough mean spirit to do battle globally. And so does China, which antedates them all in the Art of War. China has enough military-minded kick-ass traditions to get it done.

Foton just launched in Germany last September. Too bad their video doesn't give too much info ... yet. Check this out:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4-r5EHYE1E"]YouTube - FOTON - Product Launch[/ame]

[scharnhorst]

one of the photos show the foton racing truck ahead of the competition (MB). hehe

A redesigned brilliance bs6 went into another crash test 72 days after the initially disastrous results. Finally earned a 3-star rating. Hopefully, manufacturers would also extend the improvements to the other car components.

[webmiester]

Are those chinese engines they're putting on the PhUVs any good? I guess most would agree that the 1.8 liter diesel would be inadequate at hauling things cross-country and up mountains, but what about the durability?

OT: I've seen a foton blizzard recently, and it's a dmax with a 4jb1

Its a dmax only by design not necessarily by build.

This is the problem that a lot of the chinese motorcycles are encountering. They are Honda clones but they simply dont last as long because of poor metallurgy, molding, polishing, etc.

I personally stay away from Chinese screwdrivers. They look similar to the american or japanese ones pero before you can open the screw, sira na yung driver dahil sa lambot ng metal nila

[jpdm]

I think using Japanese engines right now is far too expensive and using Japanese clone-Chinese engines are practical alternative compared to second-hand surplus Japanese engines. ( I'd asked a local dealer of brand new japanese diesel engine grabe nga 250k, engine palang)

So, I think Anfra is correct in choosing JAC-a Chinese vehicle manufacturer. At least all parts will be brand new, the engine from China and the body/ upholstery, locally fabricated by our very skilled workers.

The new Anfra just need to more improvement,before being finally release in the market. Just a little improvement especially the body, paint and upholstery.

With Chinese parts but with a local touch, we can have a decent Pinoy vehicle.


And with a price tag below 500k, ok yun ang Anfra for a brand new locally made vehicle, alot cheaper from all existing brand new vehicles of the same category in the Philippines....