Doctors are leaving the country - are they abandoning those who need them the most?

[midinite]

People don't die just because there are no doctors. People die because there is a lack of sanitary drinking water because there are no engineers to build wells. Children die because they are left alone in the home as there are no nannies to look after them. People die because architects and construction workers build substandard houses on eroded mountaintops. So why single out doctors as the cause of the country's woes?

Am not just singling them out for the country's woes...am just musing about the breakdown in medical service in the country which is obviously economic in origin. Now we can continue to debate and choose sides or we can think of ways to find a solution diba? Rather than discuss semantics any idea where that solution could be?

[Gumusut_Amige]

Am not just singling them out for the country's woes...am just musing about the breakdown in medical service in the country which is obviously economic in origin. Now we can continue to debate and choose sides or we can think of ways to find a solution diba? Rather than discuss semantics any idea where that solution could be?

Those doctors that are gone for greener pastures, let it be and just wait for them to come back and serve the pinoys upon earning adequate amount for their temporary needs.
IMO, the government should play a major role to combat the provisional shortage of doctors. They should allocate enough budgets to craft a sponsorship program to produce medical practitioners with a service clause to stay put in our motherland upon graduation. Strongly believe here that we have still enough bunches of good and deserving students that are eager to become doctors but without the financial capacity to push through their ambition. This is easier said than done but with a concerted effort and will of our government, in no time, nobody will be ever again raise the issue of doctors exodus seeking the green bucks.
But the sad fact, our government are having some misplaced priorities... tsk tsk tsk.

[mikey177]

Am not just singling them out for the country's woes...am just musing about the breakdown in medical service in the country which is obviously economic in origin. Now we can continue to debate and choose sides or we can think of ways to find a solution diba? Rather than discuss semantics any idea where that solution could be?

I'll discuss semantics and take sides on an issue if I feel strongly enough about it.

At any rate, here is my opinion on possible measures that could improve the state of things as regards our medical practitioners:

* Institute a decent medicare system like those in first-world countries.

Pinoy doctors know how difficult it is to be poor and sick. PhilHealth, while it is a start, is sorely inadequate to meet the great cost of health care, especially when one reaches old age or has a critical and costly illness. Doctors have even seen the families of relatively well off patients lose all their assets and fall deep into debt just to keep a family member alive. Believe me when I say that the thought of dying poor and penniless after fighting against illness has crossed their minds. They know that medicare in other countries gives a patient more than a fighting chance. They want the same good odds for themselves and their family members.

* Junk the medical malpractice bills pending in the legislature.

The majority of doctors that I know have the welfare of their patients at heart. They go ot of their way to implement the best treatment for their patients. They work long days and nights, and even forego charging their regular professional fee if the patient is really poor. Yet, even with the best of care, the lives of persons are ultimately in God's hands. Sometimes patients die. What hurts the feelings of doctors is when a patient dies despite his best effort and some rabble rousing family member or friend eggs the family on to file a malpractice suit against the doctor. Parang wala silang utang na loob --nagmalasakit ka na nga na tulungan sila, kakasuhan ka pa. Do you know how stressful and counterproductive fighting a law suit is?

Admittedly, there are bad eggs in the medical profession, but for the most part doctors can police their own ranks. A malpractice law will also raise the cost of medical care even more. If this law were in place, doctors would order full batteries of medical tests instead of relying on just basic lab tests and their clinical eye. They will have to. They need black-and-white proof against frivolous law suits.

* Increase the budget for health care.

I think it's less than 5 percent of the national budget this year. Mas malaki pa ang napupuntang budget sa pagbayad ng foreign debt kaysa sa pag-alaga sa kalusugan ng mga mamamayan.

* Improve the peace and order situation.

Doctors and other professionals in our country face a quandary. They want to improve their lot in life, but they know that wealth attracts the wrong kind of people --kidnappers, thieves, swindlers. Ikanga, bakit ka pa magpapayaman kung magiging target ka lang at ang mga anak mo ng mga KFR syndicate?

* Someone has to break the chain.

The country is in a vicious cycle. Poor health. Illiteracy. Poverty. Politicking. Corruption. Individualism over patriotism. My head gets dizzy trying to figure out what malady spawns what, but the fact remains that change has to start within each individual.

Stop bribing corrupt cops. Pay taxes correctly. Instill the correct values in your children and live them yourself. Give a d*mn about national issues and tell your elected leaders about your sentiments. Complain and take action when government fails to deliver service to the people and to fulfill its covenant.

[imprezawrxsti]

Im from Healthcare...tingin ko hindi lahat ng umaalis eh dahil main objective nila eh yong monetary benefit. sa akin na lang , after graduation i started a business ...nalugi...so nag-aply ako sa hospitals ...walang tumatanggap...nagvolunteer na ..puno pa din daw, pag nakita ko yong taas ng mga resume sa mesa ng HR nakakapanlumo...eh nagugutom na ako, so umalis na lang ako...But some of my classmates DID stay. joining the AFP medic was my main goal why i took up nursing, ,kaso hindi pa rin ako nakapasok. Samantalang dito sa tate after one interview eh, When is the most convenient time for you to start ?

[midinite]

I'll discuss semantics and take sides on an issue if I feel strongly enough about it.

* Someone has to break the chain.

The country is in a vicious cycle. Poor health. Illiteracy. Poverty. Politicking. Corruption. Individualism over patriotism. My head gets dizzy trying to figure out what malady spawns what, but the fact remains that change has to start within each individual.

Stop bribing corrupt cops. Pay taxes correctly. Instill the correct values in your children and live them yourself. Give a d*mn about national issues and tell your elected leaders about your sentiments. Complain and take action when government fails to deliver service to the people and to fulfill its covenant.

Am glad to see you feel strongly about it. Such passion may be the first step to change. It appears IMHO that the last point is the point that needs to be addressed on a nationwide scale. Funny how that same cycle has demoted us from a top south east asian country to...okay I'm sure everyone has an idea.

This forum is one way to help analyse the situation and see how we can take action as you pointed out. Are there other ways?

[oldblue]

hindi naman kaya propaganda lang eto na kunwari they care bec. doctors are leaving the country. sa dami ba naman ng pinoy eh magkakashortage pa tayo sa peopleware. dyan na nga lang tayo magaling eh, gumawa ng bata at mag-export ng professionals. why not take advantage of it d'ba for our country?

in fact, mas ok pa nga coz mas mabibigyan ng break yun mga bago doctor to prove themselves here muna. yun mga magagaling na umalis na, mag-specialize muna abroad at kung gusto bumalik the better kasi puwede na sila mag-charge ng P500k to 1M per surgical operation o kung ano man yun. kung nag-nurse naman yun doctor, then stay there for good.

sa part naman natin mga mamamayan pinoy, hinay hinay na lang sa pagkain ng kung anu-ano. gugustuhin nyo ba ma-supervise ng mga baguhan doctor? so let that be a lesson to you sa ngaun at sa future. kung nag-eat all you can 3 times a week, be responsible for your health. burn it kagad. ang kailangan natin eh maintain dito eh emergency doctors. coz yan ang isa pa mayaman ang Pilipinas, emergency cases.

[Altis6453]

I can't blame doctors who leave the country for greener pastures. They've got needs, dreams, aspirations and motivations too. Meaning, they're still human. There's nothing illegal or immoral about trying to seek a better life for your family.

[niky]

Personally, I don't believe in professionals leaving the country. If you have enough money to leave, you're not exactly starving.

But I can understand the concern. I can understand if poor doctors, who still wear the same shirt and ratty lab coat day in and day out, and commute to work, despite spending the majority of their life in med school, leave... but I find it funny that middle class and even upper middle class doctors, with a house and a car or two also want to leave.

Greener pastures? With the price of gas creeping up in the US, the astronomical cost of decent housing, and the even more astronomical cost of education there? Sure, you'll be able to afford more car there, but you'll be living in much the same way as you live here.

But, it's their lives, and the lives of their families. So good luck to them. You can't force people to stay where they don't want to, and to do what they don't want to do. A person who stays because they want to is more effective at their job than one who doesn't, so why keep the one who doesn't?

The best solution is: Let them go. Just remind them of those they leave behind, and hope they return (some do) to share their wealth and knowledge with others.

In the meantime, the really destitute, the ones who can't afford to become doctors or nurses or leave for the US... we should educate. Raise them to the level where we can tap them to replace those who leave.

[morrissey_05]

great views on the topic.

ive also been to places around the country and have seen how the lack of medical attention can lead to the death of a little girl due to the common cold.

i for one believe that all of us, including doctors, nurses, teachers, whatever, should stay and work and help to make our country better. and i admire people who do stay, or come back to serve after being abroad.

between dying penniless but at least trying to help and dying rich but having abandoned my country, i would choose the first. to me, it makes life more meaningful. but that's just me.

but i also believe that it really all boils down to personal choices. i cannot fault them for leaving at all.

at the very least, doctors, nurses and teachers, should have a "service" clause, meaning after graduation, they should serve for a period of time before they leave. but again, this is just me.

if the opportunities were good here, would you think they would go abroad? a majority, i surmise, would stay. after all, there's nothing like living in your own country.

to me, it also boils down to how much this government gives priority to health and education. if the budget, and correspondingly the salaries, was bigger for health and education, then the situation could be better. instead, the government we have has warped priorities like building mega-regions, giving more to lawmakers for pork barrel, etc.

What about increasing the budgets for education and health and making sure the money is supposed to go where its supposed to go?

we can all help in our own little way and im sure most of us on the board do just that. from helping the poor in the countryside to setting up our little businesses to paying our taxes correctly. sure, we can rage on and on about how our taxes are being pilfered by those in power, but at least in our own hearts, we know we are doing the right thing. and i think that makes all the difference.

[smooth]

between dying penniless but at least trying to help and dying rich but having abandoned my country, i would choose the first. to me, it makes life more meaningful. but that's just me.

i sincerely hope your words will not be put to the test any time soon. if you've got children who are going hungry because you are penniless, would you want them to go through the same sacrifices you're going through for your own beliefs? minsan masarap sabihin ang mga ganyang kataga. nawa'y hindi ka subukin ng panahon. be careful what you wish for...

at the very least, doctors, nurses and teachers, should have a "service" clause, meaning after graduation, they should serve for a period of time before they leave. but again, this is just me.

you've got to be kidding me, right? bakit doctors, nurses and teachers lang? anong kasalanan nila at gusto mo silang mag-"forced labor"? that they spent so much time in med school? that they spent so much money in med school? that they already helped so many of our countrymen in medical clerkship, medical internship and possibly in 3-5 years of specialty training?

what is the problem with this country? the biggest problem of this country is its people who do not know what it is they are talking about.

[morrissey_05]

i sincerely hope your words will not be put to the test any time soon. if you've got children who are going hungry because you are penniless, would you want them to go through the same sacrifices you're going through for your own beliefs? minsan masarap sabihin ang mga ganyang kataga. nawa'y hindi ka subukin ng panahon. be careful what you wish for...



you've got to be kidding me, right? bakit doctors, nurses and teachers lang? anong kasalanan nila at gusto mo silang mag-"forced labor"? that they spent so much time in med school? that they spent so much money in med school? that they already helped so many of our countrymen in medical clerkship, medical internship and possibly in 3-5 years of specialty training?

what is the problem with this country? the biggest problem of this country is its people who do not know what it is they are talking about.

im sorry you feel that way. again, this is all just me. i will not try to convince anyone that my views are what should be followed, or that my views are gospel truth.

truth to tell, i am going to be father soon and one thing i will definitely teach my child is not to sacrifice his dignity and humanity on the altar of money. to be happy with what we have, rather than obssess about what we dont have.

it is definitely my obligation to make sure i will provide for my child to the best of my ability. it is an obligation i (will) take seriously. i do not intend to starve my child in exchange for my beliefs because it doesnt have to be that way. it doesnt have to be one for the other. im sure in our own lives, we have examples and models we can look up to who didnt have to compromise their beliefs in exchange for feeding their child. think old school.

dont worry, i will put food on my child's plate, even if its just tuyo. for as long as it was acquired through honest means, why should i or my child mind? But i'll tell you what, the moment i compromise my beliefs in exchange for satisfying the hunger of my child, i will post an announcement here. I will say "Smooth dude, you were right. im a loser. i was wrong and now i will eat my own ****." hows that?

thankfully, God has allowed to me make an honest living, while at the same time do my little share of trying to help people despite the multitude of temptations. its not much, but at least i try. and i continue to hope He will allow me to continue to do this. sabi nga dba, if He is with me, then who will be against me?

you object to doctors and nurses being given "forced labor?" then lets apply it to ALL then.

what is the problem of this country? the biggest problem of this country is that people just dont seem to care.

peace dude.

[smooth]

im sorry you feel that way. again, this is all just me. i will not try to convince anyone that my views are what should be followed, or that my views are gospel truth.

truth to tell, i am going to be father soon and one thing i will definitely teach my child is not to sacrifice his dignity and humanity on the altar of money. to be happy with what we have, rather than obssess about what we dont have.

it is definitely my obligation to make sure i will provide for my child to the best of my ability. it is an obligation i (will) take seriously. i do not intend to starve my child in exchange for my beliefs because it doesnt have to be that way. it doesnt have to be one for the other. im sure in our own lives, we have examples and models we can look up to who didnt have to compromise their beliefs in exchange for feeding their child. think old school.

dont worry, i will put food on my child's plate, even if its just tuyo. for as long as it was acquired through honest means, why should i or my child mind? But i'll tell you what, the moment i compromise my beliefs in exchange for satisfying the hunger of my child, i will post an announcement here. I will say "Smooth dude, you were right. im a loser. i was wrong and now i will eat my own ****." hows that?

thankfully, God has allowed to me make an honest living, while at the same time do my little share of trying to help people despite the multitude of temptations. its not much, but at least i try. and i continue to hope He will allow me to continue to do this. sabi nga dba, if He is with me, then who will be against me?

you object to doctors and nurses being given "forced labor?" then lets apply it to ALL then.

what is the problem of this country? the biggest problem of this country is that people just dont seem to care.

peace dude.

ok. sorry about that. but IMO, a lot of people do not see the other side of being a doctor. about not being in family gatherings for xmas and new year. about not being able to enjoy the simple pleasures of bathing and eating when you have just gone through more than 36 hours of duty. about spending more than a quarter of your salary practically every month just so that that indigent patient could survive another day. and at the end of it all, tell you that you should render "forced labor;" tell you that you can not leave this country because you have to give more.

we have john does dropped off at our emergency room by ordinary folks everyday. househelp that had a stroke and/or heart attack and left for dead at the ER's doors by their employers. vehicular accident victims dropped off by some drunk driver. how far should we measure these ordinary folks' caring? by dropping them off at the ER? every single time this happens, most of the medicines come from the resident physician's pockets. and chances are, through the night (when most of you folks are sleeping soundly in the lullaby of the airconditioner), he will likewise spend time and effort trying his best to keep that patient's heart beating.

my father was not a doctor and i saw his routine. go to work. go home. get salary. and harp about what's wrong with the country (in the comfort of his living room, while sipping beer, during the 7:00 news). the fact is. even if you give P100K monthly, that can not in any way approximate what this country's physicians go through on a day to day basis.

its easy to criticize what's wrong when you do not know what is happening on a visceral level. its easy to hypothesize on what is wrong with the killings in some middle eastern country when we have not experienced it firsthand. steven spielberg once remarked how one black man could not understand what the hype was about with "Schindler's List," because, as the black man so eloquently put it, "its not my pain."

all i am saying is that i believe, before we start pounding on the keyboard on what is wrong and what is right, on what should be done and what is missing, please do your research first. and most importantly, we should stop volunteering other people. you want change to happen in this country? start with yourself. stop asking other people to sacrifice for your own beliefs. because the apathy in people's faces that you so eloquently criticize might be your own.

peace.

[morrissey_05]

ok. sorry about that. but IMO, a lot of people do not see the other side of being a doctor. about not being in family gatherings for xmas and new year. about not being able to enjoy the simple pleasures of bathing and eating when you have just gone through more than 36 hours of duty. about spending more than a quarter of your salary practically every month just so that that indigent patient could survive another day. and at the end of it all, tell you that you should render "forced labor;" tell you that you can not leave this country because you have to give more.

we have john does dropped off at our emergency room by ordinary folks everyday. househelp that had a stroke and/or heart attack and left for dead at the ER's doors by their employers. vehicular accident victims dropped off by some drunk driver. how far should we measure these ordinary folks' caring? by dropping them off at the ER? every single time this happens, most of the medicines come from the resident physician's pockets. and chances are, through the night (when most of you folks are sleeping soundly in the lullaby of the airconditioner), he will likewise spend time and effort trying his best to keep that patient's heart beating.

my father was not a doctor and i saw his routine. go to work. go home. get salary. and harp about what's wrong with the country (in the comfort of his living room, while sipping beer, during the 7:00 news). the fact is. even if you give P100K monthly, that can not in any way approximate what this country's physicians go through on a day to day basis.

its easy to criticize what's wrong when you do not know what is happening on a visceral level. its easy to hypothesize on what is wrong with the killings in some middle eastern country when we have not experienced it firsthand. steven spielberg once remarked how one black man could not understand what the hype was about with "Schindler's List," because, as the black man so eloquently put it, "its not my pain."

all i am saying is that i believe, before we start pounding on the keyboard on what is wrong and what is right, on what should be done and what is missing, please do your research first. and most importantly, we should stop volunteering other people. you want change to happen in this country? start with yourself. stop asking other people to sacrifice for your own beliefs. because the apathy in people's faces that you so eloquently criticize might be your own.

peace.

in my line of work as a reporter, ive see a lot of things. ive seen blood and ive seen gore. ive seen poverty, death, despair and want. believe me, i see the sacrifice doctors put in and the enormous responsibility in their hands. in fact, i can relate because my job also entails missing Christmas and other holidays and putting in long hours. also, if i wasn't doing what im doing now, i would have wanted to be a doctor because i believe there is nothing more noble than helping someone get better, to help them live another day, to snatch them from the clutches of Death. it was not my intention to disparage the medical profession nor its practitioners. on the contrary, i have the highest respect for doctors. some of my closest friends are doctors and i respect the choices they have made in their life.

research? like ive said, ive seen a lot to have an opinion about what is right and wrong about this country. and since this is a public forum, i, like most people here, put their two cents in. its all that its really worth, two cents. again, im not saying my opinions are gospel truth or that people should immediately jump up and follow them. sino ba ako to ask that? isang di hamak na manggagawa lang po.

i am not volunteering anyone nor am i asking people to sacrifice for my beliefs. again, sino ba ako to ask that? the thing about putting in service before leaving has already been suggested earlier in the thread, if not somewhere else. it was just a suggestion and you are free to disagree with that. on the other hand, your posts has convinced me of the folly of my suggestion. then lets do away with it and work to make our country better so doctors, nurses and teachers dont have to leave. thats the better measure, dont you agree?

start with myself? i try (and this is the operative word here) to do that everyday. every single day since i committed myself to my profession, i try my best to walk my talk. you and others may think lowly of my profession using words like "corrupt" and "unethical." that's fine. in fact, i can do the same for other professions, yours included. im not perfect, that much is true. but i believe i do my best to make a difference, even if its simply writing about the things around me in the hope that our leaders and policy-makers take notice and change things for the better. why? because i believe this makes life worth living. please dont question my motives for saying the things ive said.

apathy? again, i must be guilty of this somehow somewhere sometime in my life. but to tell you the truth, i think it was never in my nature to be apathetic. which is why i have said the things ive said here.

we are called to our professions. but the higher calling is to try to do good and to try to help no matter the paths we have chosen.

So Mr. Smooth, please continue the good deeds you are doing for your dear patients. I tip my hat to you and your sacrifices. And i'll make you a deal. continue doing your best for the people around you and i promise to do my best for the people around me in turn. for me, two people doing their best in this world is good enough. do we have a deal?

peace.

[ruel23]

before only skilled workers and engineers were eager for overseas, but now even doctors and practicing dentists would like to try their luck in other countries, some of them took some units in nursing and caregivers.

i saw some pinoy doctors and dentist here in aussie, malaki kasi ang salary nila dito at mahal din pag nagkasakit ka..

[midinite]

i saw some pinoy doctors and dentist here in aussie, malaki kasi ang salary nila dito at mahal din pag nagkasakit ka..

How goes it in Oz, mate. Learn as much as you can and take it back to teach more back in the Phils. At least this all woke up what would have been a drab friday here...

[midinite]

The nice thing though is at least people are reacting to the the thread. At least that is a starting point. Niky, you have good point - If they want to leave so be it. That is what I never understood when I returned to the good old Philippines last year after a long stint out...when someone wants to resign some companies try to counter...eh sa akin diba resign ang gusto niya di say "thank you and good luck." Some even use resigning as a gambit to nego for more...weird. And Morrisey, its Pinoys like you that make me glad that I am back. Yes, we have to work together. Kaya natin ito. I know the times can get us cynical pero as corny as it seems tayo ang custodians for the next gen...

It is good to see there are those who have faith still in our ailing country. To you guys I tip my hat.

[baiskee]

di naman sila aalis kung maayos ang pamumuhay nila dito sa pilipinas.

[ruel23]

di naman sila aalis kung maayos ang pamumuhay nila dito sa pilipinas.

korek ka dyan, that means na talagang pagrabe ng pagrabe ang economy natin, at pansinin mo ang rate ng peso to dollar parang nilalaro na lang nila.

pero salamat tayo halos lahat ng nag overseas ay succesful naman at lalo na dito sa aussie bilib sila sa mga pinoy kasi hardworking...

[midinite]

pero salamat tayo halos lahat ng nag overseas ay succesful naman at lalo na dito sa aussie bilib sila sa mga pinoy kasi hardworking...

Mate, this is what I don't understand. Ba't hardworking ang pinoy pag nasa labas ng bansa? Pag nasa Pinas iba ang kwento...from my experience outside...Have a good weekend.

[StraightSix]

Mate, this is what I don't understand. Ba't hardworking ang pinoy pag nasa labas ng bansa? Pag nasa Pinas iba ang kwento...from my experience outside...Have a good weekend.

OT: Baka naman kaya hindi hardworking sa Pinas kasi walang work ... puro hard lang

I don't see pinoys that way - simply because I didn't know most back home. I wonder what made you generalize overseas pinoys as such?

Cheers.