"Philippines urged to try electric vehicles"

[oj88]

Electric cars will only be viable to people who regularly travel relatively short distances, with or without traffic. Petrol engines have very poor efficiency when used on short distances, even on an open highway. And it gets much worse in stop and go traffic. In both of these cases, an electric car would be ideal.

Would I get one if the TCO gets cheaper? Absolutely!

I travel 32-35km a day (home to office and back). So a full charge should last me about three days (for the Leaf's 160km range and factoring the lights that will be turned on half the time).

[Mguy]

Sana mag-design sila ng replaceable battery pack if you are low on battery charge to improve ang range. Just think lang na every gas station would have battery packs already charged. So one electric car comes in and has the option to either charge (quick charge yata is 20mins for the Leaf) or replace the battery packs. Of course, the current design right now is that removing the battery packs is time consuming. Maganda sana kung plug and play ang design nya.

So if the client swapped the battery pack, the gas station will charge that depleted battery pack for the next EV customer.

[ghosthunter]

Electric cars will only be viable to people who regularly travel relatively short distances, with or without traffic. Petrol engines have very poor efficiency when used on short distances, even on an open highway. And it gets much worse in stop and go traffic. In both of these cases, an electric car would be ideal.

Would I get one if the TCO gets cheaper? Absolutely!

I travel 32-35km a day (home to office and back). So a full charge should last me about three days (for the Leaf's 160km range and factoring the lights that will be turned on half the time).

That 160km range wil be drastically cut down if you also include aircon usage during your drive.

[ghosthunter]

Sana mag-design sila ng replaceable battery pack if you are low on battery charge to improve ang range. Just think lang na every gas station would have battery packs already charged. So one electric car comes in and has the option to either charge (quick charge yata is 20mins for the Leaf) or replace the battery packs. Of course, the current design right now is that removing the battery packs is time consuming. Maganda sana kung plug and play ang design nya.

So if the client swapped the battery pack, the gas station will charge that depleted battery pack for the next EV customer.

that would be a nice "what-if" scenario. Having standard battery packs for all types and models of EVs but it will not happen. For one, the battery pack is a major component in a EV, essentially the EV is designed around its battery pack. SO until the day where an EV's battery pack is the size of a medium sized hand luggage, this will just remain a fantasy.

I am also curious about the practicality of the battery swapping mods done to the ejeepney. From the way they are doing it, it's going to take quite a effort just to swap a single vehicle at one time. Imagine having to do it everyday for 21 vehicles (the makati ejeep fleet).

[ghosthunter]

Sana mag-design sila ng replaceable battery pack if you are low on battery charge to improve ang range. Just think lang na every gas station would have battery packs already charged. So one electric car comes in and has the option to either charge (quick charge yata is 20mins for the Leaf) or replace the battery packs. Of course, the current design right now is that removing the battery packs is time consuming. Maganda sana kung plug and play ang design nya.

So if the client swapped the battery pack, the gas station will charge that depleted battery pack for the next EV customer.

BTW asking car makers to make a common swappable EV battery pack would be like asking honda, toyota, nissan and mitsubishi to make a single common engine for their civic, corolla, sentra and lancer. It won't happen unless coerced by outside forces.

We don't even have common "sharable" batteries for our laptops and mobile phones (sharable between brands).

[Ry_Tower]

BTW asking car makers to make a common swappable EV battery pack would be like asking honda, toyota, nissan and mitsubishi to make a single common engine for their civic, corolla, sentra and lancer. It won't happen unless coerced by outside forces.

We don't even have common "sharable" batteries for our laptops and mobile phones (sharable between brands).

Even motolite and standard batteries have different posts lines. Had to configure my battery cable when I replaced my Standar with a motolite one.

[Mguy]

Well we could hope. Just recently, phone manufacturers have different chargers but they unified to produce a common one for all makes of phone.

Am pretty sure in the history of cars, certain things got standardized. Hopefully in due time.

[olidotcom]

... lower the prices.. or even have the government subsidize at least 50% of the price.. i wont mind using one...

even tax breaks and extra discounts will help din.

[uls]

that would be a nice "what-if" scenario. Having standard battery packs for all types and models of EVs but it will not happen. For one, the battery pack is a major component in a EV, essentially the EV is designed around its battery pack. SO until the day where an EV's battery pack is the size of a medium sized hand luggage, this will just remain a fantasy.

BTW asking car makers to make a common swappable EV battery pack would be like asking honda, toyota, nissan and mitsubishi to make a single common engine for their civic, corolla, sentra and lancer. It won't happen unless coerced by outside forces.

one more thing... if i bought a brand new million+ peso electric car, i wouldnt swap my new battery for someone else's battery

[niky]

The idea is to divorce the battery ownership from the vehicle ownership via a swapping regime... which works if you have enough clients with the same battery.

For cars that already have their own battery pack, once you've designed a compact, swappable battery that can fit in a trunk, you can piggyback that in those cars.

99% of the issues with electrics are battery, battery, battery. By making it a supplier-side issue rather than a customer-side issue, you take care of most of the problems with owning an EV. As a bonus, supplier-side battery ownership mostly eliminates the need for quick-charging, which kills batteries quickly.

Of course, everyone's waiting for the magic bullet miracle quick-charge, ultra-cheap battery. But that's notgonnahappenanytimesoon.com

[uls]

pwede when electric car pricing doesnt include the battery and you pay a separate fee to join a "battery club" owned by a battery supplier/suppliers. that way you don't OWN the battery you just pay for the power so you wouldnt have issues re swapping your brand new battery for someone else's 2 yr old battery

the "battery club" gotta have locations all over the place

[uls]

but whatever...

electric cars are stupid. only treehuggers think they're great

gawa nalang sila ng kalye na may naka-embed na electric lines. that will eliminate the need for onboard batteries

[ghosthunter]

pwede when electric car pricing doesnt include the battery and you pay a separate fee to join a "battery club" owned by a battery supplier/suppliers. that way you don't OWN the battery you just pay for the power so you wouldnt have issues re swapping your brand new battery for someone else's 2 yr old battery

the "battery club" gotta have locations all over the place

... the same chicken or egg problem. Which comes first to make EVs affordable?

[uls]

but treehuggers will say you gotta start somewhere

if not now, when?

if you don't start now, it's never gonna move forward

oh well... this is what happens when something is driven by ideology

[niky]

The manufacturers have to show something viable first.

Then present a business model that will entice the "filling station" owners. Say... not even the filling station owners own the batteries. They also lease them form the manufacturers (first) and they collect their fees merely off of the electric content of the batteries, whereas the manufacturer collects the surcharge that goes towards replacing batteries.

Then present to the public this new form of PUV or even customer vehicle that now costs less than a car to both buy and run.

Wait for the inevitable gas price spike... then get customers... like the LPG businesses did.

Obviously, it's more difficult. With LPG, customers were simply extending the usable life of vehicles they already had... namely gasoline taxis. This will be an upfront investment, which operators will not be willing to take alone. But with tax incentives and perhaps a little prodding from the government (outlawing all diesel vehicles that fail to meet an emissions standard... quite easy to fail thousands of smoke belching jeepneys this way), you give them no choice but to either buy a jeepney with a new diesel motor (nearly a million pesos) or to buy a tax-free EV with no battery costs included (around 400k).

It would be extremely difficult, but doable.

[ghosthunter]

The manufacturers have to show something viable first.

Then present a business model that will entice the "filling station" owners. Say... not even the filling station owners own the batteries. They also lease them form the manufacturers (first) and they collect their fees merely off of the electric content of the batteries, whereas the manufacturer collects the surcharge that goes towards replacing batteries.

Then present to the public this new form of PUV or even customer vehicle that now costs less than a car to both buy and run.

Wait for the inevitable gas price spike... then get customers... like the LPG businesses did.

Obviously, it's more difficult. With LPG, customers were simply extending the usable life of vehicles they already had... namely gasoline taxis. This will be an upfront investment, which operators will not be willing to take alone. But with tax incentives and perhaps a little prodding from the government (outlawing all diesel vehicles that fail to meet an emissions standard... quite easy to fail thousands of smoke belching jeepneys this way), you give them no choice but to either buy a jeepney with a new diesel motor (nearly a million pesos) or to buy a tax-free EV with no battery costs included (around 400k).

It would be extremely difficult, but doable.

The Auto-LPG model was easier.

It started with taxi cab companies want to save cost on fuel by converting their vehicles to LPG. The fuel source solution was to have their own supply of LPG at their garage. No need to have an established network of Auto-LPG stations around the city.

Later, stand-alone Auto-LPG filling stations as well as regular gasoline stations with LPG pumps started to pop-up around the metro to serve the increasing number of taxi cabs running on LPG. This part also solved the problem of private cars upgraded with Auto-LPG kits.

A simple supply and demand model.

It is doubtful if you can do the same for EVs where there is absolutely no demand (beyond a few greenies with political agendas).

[niky]

In the same vein, if you could convince one operator to buy a number of jeeps and batteries...

But then again, due to the very low margins you get from jeeps versus taxis (because taxis are "luxury" public transport), that might be an uphill battle.

[ghosthunter]

In the same vein, if you could convince one operator to buy a number of jeeps and batteries...

But then again, due to the very low margins you get from jeeps versus taxis (because taxis are "luxury" public transport), that might be an uphill battle.

Auto-LPG kits were very cheap at under P20K for the carb versions when Auto-LPG started in Metro Manila.

A battery pack for the e-jeepney is potentially between P60,000 to P100,000 each with a limited cycle life of an estimated 500 cycles before replacement is required. "Uphill battle" doesn't even begin to describe the financing issues you would have trying to sell this idea to jeepney operators.

[niky]

Auto-LPG kits were very cheap at under P20K for the carb versions when Auto-LPG started in Metro Manila.

A battery pack for the e-jeepney is potentially between P60,000 to P100,000 each with a limited cycle life of an estimated 500 cycles before replacement is required. "Uphill battle" doesn't even begin to describe the financing issues you would have trying to sell this idea to jeepney operators.

About 50k for the current battery pack.

What's more uphill than uphill? Vertical?

[ghosthunter]

About 50k for the current battery pack.

P50,000 per battery pack. With the need to have TWO packs for each vehicle to ensure minimal downtime for the e-jeepney to offset the limited range (50 to 60 km per full charge). The battery packs required 8 hour recharging time.