Terrible Tagaytay Traffic (summer weekends, esp holy week)

[CVT]

This used to be a favorite fun run route of the Nissan guys. SLEX - STAR - Lipa - STAR - Talisay - Tagaytay - kain.

Baligtad pala tayo bro... Kami naman with wifey and kids some years ago... Home>Alabang>SLEX>Carmona>Silang>Aguinaldo Hiway>Tagaytay (visit Pink Sister)>merienda>zigzag road>Talisay>STAR>Lipa Cathedral>lunch at Lipa Grill (across the street)>STAR>Tubina(no link yet between STAR and SLEX)>SLEX>ATC>Home.....

18.6K:grin2:

[Ry_Tower]

Don't discount the middle class. Offspring of the babyboomer middle class have now graduated from college and are in the rising ranks of the workforce, building their families, acquiring assets, etc.

OFW remittances also continue to drive consumer spending.

Plus the soon to be retired old timers with cash to burn.

Those who started working in the 60/70's pa-retire na mga yan. Dami pera din. hehe

[hein]

Where is the nearest vacation spot the overpopulated Manila people go to?

[jut703]

Don't discount the middle class. Offspring of the babyboomer middle class have now graduated from college and are in the rising ranks of the workforce, building their families, acquiring assets, etc.

OFW remittances also continue to drive consumer spending.

But not all college graduates end up with better lives. In fact, 40% of those unemployed today are college graduates.

Also, an increase in OFW remittances isn't always indicative of a better economy. In fact, having our economy kept afloat by OFW remittances as opposed to local employment is alarming because it represents the inability of the government to provide opportunities in the country.

billions of dollars per year of remittances have lifted a large number of people from poverty

If that's the case, then why has inequality stayed the same? Poverty incidence has also remained in the 30% range over the past decade.

Plus the soon to be retired old timers with cash to burn.

Those who started working in the 60/70's pa-retire na mga yan. Dami pera din. hehe

This assumes that everyone ended up better off than when they started. I'm not sure that's the case for the Philippines as a whole.

While indeed we see more people with fancy gadgets, eating in fancy restaurants, and even driving new cars, we can't really be sure that what we see comprises a representative sample of the true condition of the country on a macro level. I'm only basing my thoughts on figures and stats I've seen, which unfortunately seem contrary to the statement that the standard of living is rising and everyone can now afford cars and vacations.

[lowslowbenz]

Tagaytay regular here (almost every other weekend)

Traffic?? ... What traffic???

[vinj]

But not all college graduates end up with better lives. In fact, 40% of those unemployed today are college graduates.

Also, an increase in OFW remittances isn't always indicative of a better economy. In fact, having our economy kept afloat by OFW remittances as opposed to local employment is alarming because it represents the inability of the government to provide opportunities in the country.



If that's the case, then why has inequality stayed the same? Poverty incidence has also remained in the 30% range over the past decade.



This assumes that everyone ended up better off than when they started. I'm not sure that's the case for the Philippines as a whole.

While indeed we see more people with fancy gadgets, eating in fancy restaurants, and even driving new cars, we can't really be sure that what we see comprises a representative sample of the true condition of the country on a macro level. I'm only basing my thoughts on figures and stats I've seen, which unfortunately seem contrary to the statement that the standard of living is rising and everyone can now afford cars and vacations.

I am not pertaining to new, fresh college graduates. We are looking at the offspring of people who were born in the late 1940's to the 1950's. These baby boomers graduated from college in the 1970's and 1980s (unless they ended up as KIAs during the martial law era), got married in the 1970's to 1980's, and had children graduate from college in the late 1990s to early 2000's. These children have been working for a good 10 years or more, are now moving up within the middle class ladder, are starting to build their own families and amass wealth. They can afford to buy 2 cars or more, a house or two, etc., while the parents who are in their late 50s to mid/late 60s are still strong enough to be contributing members of society (they still buy cars, go on trips, build their houses, etc). Yes it still is limited to the 20% or 30% of the Philippine population but that is more than enough to overwhelm the existing urban centers, as these developments are still concentrated in key cities across the country and the government cannot keep up with infrastructure developments to serve the increasing need.

I've been constantly going around the country in the last ten years and the developments one can see is quite astonishing when you talk of the different cities from up north to down south. This is also punctuated by the feedback i get from consumer goods companies (electronics and cosmetics among some) that their sales growth drivers in the provinces are quite good. The next step is ensuring that these developments and wealth growth trickle down to the lower class but that is a very, very complicated matter if you ask me given that in some sectors, people don't even want to help themselves! Imagine the possibilities if half of the impoverished sector were not only empowered but also have the will to actually help themselves for the long run.

I don't think anyone here stated that dependence on OFW remittances is a good thing, it's just said that these contributions per se have placed the Philippines where it is at this point. Given that each OFW has an expected lifespan abroad, it's up to him/her and their family to figure out how to sustain that income when they retire and return home. If that OFW income allowed a business to be set up, a house to be built, children to finish college and to work here or to eventually go abroad and work as well, then that's good and is a continuity that puts food in the table, people in the malls and children in the schools. The thing here is they did something to make a situation better for them and their families and in turn, continues to help the country.

Re. poverty, it's also quite relative. Imelda Marcos still claims that she is poor. :D

BTT: Kaya hindi na ako nag-isip bumili sa Tagaytay area... Doon nalang ako sa mga bukid sa norte. Mas mura at may airport para makaka-piso fare pa rin ako hanggang SG and HK. Pag mainit, may aircon at mall pa rin naman (panay outlet store pa na naka-sale ng old stocks from Manila) tapos malapit na rin yung mga beach sa Zamba at Bataan

[jut703]

I am not pertaining to new, fresh college graduates. We are looking at the offspring of people who were born in the late 1940's to the 1950's. These baby boomers graduated from college in the 1970's and 1980s (unless they ended up as KIAs during the martial law era), got married in the 1970's to 1980's, and had children graduate from college in the late 1990s to early 2000's. These children have been working for a good 10 years or more, are now moving up within the middle class ladder, are starting to build their own families and amass wealth. They can afford to buy 2 cars or more, a house or two, etc., while the parents who are in their late 50s to mid/late 60s are still strong enough to be contributing members of society (they still buy cars, go on trips, build their houses, etc). Yes it still is limited to the 20% or 30% of the Philippine population but that is more than enough to overwhelm the existing urban centers, as these developments are still concentrated in key cities across the country and the government cannot keep up with infrastructure developments to serve the increasing need.

I've been constantly going around the country in the last ten years and the developments one can see is quite astonishing when you talk of the different cities from up north to down south. This is also punctuated by the feedback i get from consumer goods companies (electronics and cosmetics among some) that their sales growth drivers in the provinces are quite good. The next step is ensuring that these developments and wealth growth trickle down to the lower class but that is a very, very complicated matter if you ask me given that in some sectors, people don't even want to help themselves! Imagine the possibilities if half of the impoverished sector were not only empowered but also have the will to actually help themselves for the long run.

I don't think anyone here stated that dependence on OFW remittances is a good thing, it's just said that these contributions per se have placed the Philippines where it is at this point. Given that each OFW has an expected lifespan abroad, it's up to him/her and their family to figure out how to sustain that income when they retire and return home. If that OFW income allowed a business to be set up, a house to be built, children to finish college and to work here or to eventually go abroad and work as well, then that's good and is a continuity that puts food in the table, people in the malls and children in the schools. The thing here is they did something to make a situation better for them and their families and in turn, continues to help the country.

Re. poverty, it's also quite relative. Imelda Marcos still claims that she is poor. :D

BTT: Kaya hindi na ako nag-isip bumili sa Tagaytay area... Doon nalang ako sa mga bukid sa norte. Mas mura at may airport para makaka-piso fare pa rin ako hanggang SG and HK. Pag mainit, may aircon at mall pa rin naman (panay outlet store pa na naka-sale ng old stocks from Manila) tapos malapit na rin yung mga beach sa Zamba at Bataan

The people/households belonging to the A-B-C1 SECs are the ones that fit your description well. Generally they're defined by having a total monthly household income of 100k or above, but of course other factors such as standard of living can come into play. We can include the C2 SEC, which is generally defined as the middle class (roughly 50-100k household income), but even then, the combined total of the ABC SEC only comprises of roughly 10% of the Filipino population. This 10% of Filipinos however, control 35% of the income in the country, which is what really matters for consumer goods companies.

That said, I've been trying to reconcile the booming service industry with the contrasting unchanging inequality levels in the country. The influx of jobs created by BPOs has indeed allowed more opportunities in the metro, and the development of trade zones in provinces has allowed for some sort of decentralization of income over the past few years. A World Bank figure I stumbled upon placed the growth of the middle class (not clearly defined, but I'm assuming C2) to be at 9% annually. One way that this can happen despite stagnant income distribution is if the poor get poorer and the rich get richer, but the middle class offsets the disparity somehow. Which I think is the case right now - yes, some people have been able to take advantage of the opportunity for upward economic mobility, but at the far end of the spectrum we have people who are getting left behind as they are unable to ride the same wave of development that others have caught on to. On the other, more posh end of the stick, we have the uber-elite who are raking in the same percentage growth of income as the middle class - which means that while the middle class get to spend a few extra thousands per year, those at the top get richer by the millions, if not billions.

This is a segue of a segue, but given that situation, waiting for a trickle-down effect is probably one of the worst ways to go. Again, those in the bottom rungs do not have the capability to hop on the development train on their own. A bottom-up approach is more ideal, but implementation is difficult if we don't have people in the government working for the poor instead of using them.

BTT: We make it a point to go to Tagaytay on weekdays to avoid the traffic, but even then, summer afternoons on the Sta. Rosa highway ain't exactly traffic-free. Big bummer is that they Tagaytay traffic also affects those who go to Punta Fuego and other beachside Batangas vacation spots. :|

[remzam]

new alternative when going to punta fuego is take ternate and go pass the new road. that way you wont pass tagaytay traffic and even better, enjoy the nice roads going to puerto azul/marine base camp.

that route will save you an hour or two maybe even 3 during tagaytay traffic.

[lowslowbenz]

new alternative when going to punta fuego is take ternate and go pass the new road.

Is the road finished na? Last time ako dumaan dyan (going to Hamilo) may rough sections pa. Yes, sarap humataw sa twisties dyan ..

[Ry_Tower]

But not all college graduates end up with better lives. In fact, 40% of those unemployed today are college graduates.

Also, an increase in OFW remittances isn't always indicative of a better economy. In fact, having our economy kept afloat by OFW remittances as opposed to local employment is alarming because it represents the inability of the government to provide opportunities in the country.



If that's the case, then why has inequality stayed the same? Poverty incidence has also remained in the 30% range over the past decade.



This assumes that everyone ended up better off than when they started. I'm not sure that's the case for the Philippines as a whole.

While indeed we see more people with fancy gadgets, eating in fancy restaurants, and even driving new cars, we can't really be sure that what we see comprises a representative sample of the true condition of the country on a macro level. I'm only basing my thoughts on figures and stats I've seen, which unfortunately seem contrary to the statement that the standard of living is rising and everyone can now afford cars and vacations.

You don't need to assume. Kasi basehan mo pa lang employment levels ng era na yun vs sa era natin, malayo na agad. Plus yung standard of living nila noon mas mababa pa sa atin ngayon. They have a higher capacity to save and be set for life vs people now.

One barometer that made me think this way is because my sister works for the Dep-Ed financial division and she is saying that retiring and soon to be retiring teachers (60-65) are mostly better off financially than the current crop of teachers aged 25-40. Now we are talking about a province-wide situation ha. So when they do retire and then splurge, addt'l income yan.

Give and take a few more years and you'll see what I mean. Heavy spenders pa naman sa services mga oldies (and gamot siyempre). hehe

[remzam]

Is the road finished na? Last time ako dumaan dyan (going to Hamilo) may rough sections pa. Yes, sarap humataw sa twisties dyan ..

late last year pa yung huling punta ko dun pero very few road repairs na lang and very manageable naman. laking tulong kasi walang traffic talaga. and sariwa pa ang hangin dahil sa rainforest.

[crazy_boy]

may map ba on how to pass through Ternate?

[lowslowbenz]

late last year pa yung huling punta ko dun pero very few road repairs na lang and very manageable naman. laking tulong kasi walang traffic talaga. and sariwa pa ang hangin dahil sa rainforest.

Yup, may mga wild monkeys pa nga na tumatawid sa kalsada eh (like Subic). Lalo na on the road going up Caylabne. And the roads are first class tarmac talaga!

may map ba on how to pass through Ternate?

I explored it lang thru google maps, then print it out.

[jut703]

You don't need to assume. Kasi basehan mo pa lang employment levels ng era na yun vs sa era natin, malayo na agad. Plus yung standard of living nila noon mas mababa pa sa atin ngayon. They have a higher capacity to save and be set for life vs people now.

One barometer that made me think this way is because my sister works for the Dep-Ed financial division and she is saying that retiring and soon to be retiring teachers (60-65) are mostly better off financially than the current crop of teachers aged 25-40. Now we are talking about a province-wide situation ha. So when they do retire and then splurge, addt'l income yan.

Give and take a few more years and you'll see what I mean. Heavy spenders pa naman sa services mga oldies (and gamot siyempre). hehe

Unfortunately, our population curve is still heavily skewed towards the youth under 21. So even if we do have a slew of wealthy pensioners, their impact might not be that huge on a macro level.

Regarding propensity to save, Filipinos have always had very low savings/investment rates. As a whole, we save less than 20% of our income, much lower than that of other nations. To add to this, not any have ventured into equity investments, instead relying on fixed income savings exclusively.

It would also be unfair to compare retiring teachers to current teachers, because the older folks have several decades of work underneath their belts, which of course has given them the opportunity to be wealthier. Perhaps a more accurate point of comparison to prove that the elderly of today are more significant contributors to the economy is if we can find figures that compare the oldies of before (who are deceased by now) to the oldies of today. That way, we have a time-based comparison of a roughly identical group.

[chua_riwap]

Tagaytay regular here (almost every other weekend)

Traffic?? ... What traffic???

oo nga naman.
basta ba nagi-enjoy pag andun na no........

[vinj]

BTT: We make it a point to go to Tagaytay on weekdays to avoid the traffic, but even then, summer afternoons on the Sta. Rosa highway ain't exactly traffic-free. Big bummer is that they Tagaytay traffic also affects those who go to Punta Fuego and other beachside Batangas vacation spots. :|

Or you can buy a yacht and take it from Manila Yacht Club to Punta Fuego. No traffic... pare

Either way, whether the average Pinoy is moving up or not, the basic thing is that the government has not kept up it's infra-works to match population growth whether it is a time of prosperity, or not.

[greenlyt]

we'll be going to tagaytay this weekend, usually I'll take the sta rosa route pero my officemate suggested this: Slex, exit alabang then take daang hari then left to aguinaldo, then deretso na sa tagaytay

[shadow]

Or you can buy a yacht and take it from Manila Yacht Club to Punta Fuego. No traffic... pare

Either way, whether the average Pinoy is moving up or not, the basic thing is that the government has not kept up it's infra-works to match population growth whether it is a time of prosperity, or not.

karamihan homeowners doon nag helicopter papunta

[jut703]

karamihan homeowners doon nag helicopter papunta

Last time I went walang kahit isang helicopter. Maraming sasakyan lang.

At si Erwann Heusaff na nagjojogging ng nakahubad. :gayfight:

Either way, whether the average Pinoy is moving up or not, the basic thing is that the government has not kept up it's infra-works to match population growth whether it is a time of prosperity, or not.

One need not leave the metro to feel this. BGC palang eh. For such a modern CBD it sure has really inefficient roadways.

[vinj]

karamihan homeowners doon nag helicopter papunta

Tapos sila yaya and driver, pinapa-drive nalang ang SUV at van para sila nalang yung masasabak sa Tagaytay traffic. :D