Water/Alcohol injection Turbo Diesel use

[rmpmla]

sir dvldoc, i also ordered 1 x 4 cylinder turbo stage1- high boost +12 even without knowing the actual boost on the MPV 2.5li TDI . anyways, the pressure range of the hobbs switch seemed wide enough ( 6~30 psi ) to cover whatever actual pressure i'll get from my ride.

i won't be able join the march 22 EB, could you please send it via local courier (angeles to manila). in the meantime, i will inquire for corresponding courier charge and send the amount to you via PAYPAL. would this be OK with you?

[dvldoc]

sir dvldoc, i also ordered 1 x 4 cylinder turbo stage1- high boost +12 even without knowing the actual boost on the MPV 2.5li TDI . anyways, the pressure range of the hobbs switch seemed wide enough ( 6~30 psi ) to cover whatever actual pressure i'll get from my ride.

i won't be able join the march 22 EB, could you please send it via local courier (angeles to manila). in the meantime, i will inquire for corresponding courier charge and send the amount to you via PAYPAL. would this be OK with you?

Yes that would be fine, Our paypal is sales*alcohol-injection.com, You can really go with either switch, the low boost one just gives you the 2-5psi option as well.

[rmpmla]

sir dvldoc,
i was reading the instruction about the install of the nozzle :

4. Alky/Water Nozzle Installation
4.1. Locate a placement for the alky/water nozzle. We strongly suggest placing it behind the mass air sensor. Most people place it 3” to 4”
away from the throttle body blades, but try to keep it within a foot. Mark this spot with a marker.
4.2. Remove your intake duct from the throttle body. This can usually be done by loosening a screw or by simply pulling on the duct. Every
car is different. Be careful not to damage your car.
4.3. Using an 11/32" drill bit, drill a hole at this location.
4.4. Use a 1/8” NPT tap, if you are going through thicker metal like a throttle body or an intake manifold.
4.5. Make sure the filter is tight on the nozzle.
4.6. Take the other supplied washer and place it over the nozzle, with the rubber portion facing the intake, leaving the metal side facing the
nozzle.
4.7. Place a dab of silicon on the washer. (Optional)
4.8. Push the nozzle through the hole and screw it (clockwise) to the nozzle holder.
4.9. Secure them together with a 7/16” wrench and a 9/16” wrench. Be sure not to over-tighten them: Just tighten the parts enough to keep
them together securely.
CAUTION: If you fail to tighten the nozzle properly, it could be sucked into your motor.

browsing on one of the threads on the devilsown forum mentioned about an option for an inside or outside mount of the nozzle on the intake duct. have i just mis-read it or is it possible? coz i would prefer an outside mount of nozzle to avoid above caution.

[dvldoc]

All kits now have the dual mount nozzle you can mount it on the outside or the inside.

I think your a bit more worried about the nozzle on the inside than you need to be. The fittings are NPT which means they will lock in place, they cannot come loose. This only applies to someone who does not tighten the nozzle down just loosely screws it in with their fingers. Once you tighten with a wrench your going to have to use a wrench to get it out.

Like I said that nozzle cannot come loose even with 1000psi of pressure.

[dvldoc]

For the guys asking about there non diesel turbo cars.

Little video for you so you can see the Progressive controller in action.
Notice it on the right hand side of the screen. You can see how the activation lights operate, Red is the power one the pump starts the green center light (start) lights up and when you hit 95% of your set full on point the Full light (Yellow LED) lights up to show the system operating at full.




This is a Nissan Primera

Once the alcohol hits the race was pretty much over.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dn5Ib6IbiY"]YouTube - Nissan Primera turbo vs subaru WRX 1[/ame]

[rmpmla]

All kits now have the dual mount nozzle you can mount it on the outside or the inside.

I think your a bit more worried about the nozzle on the inside than you need to be. The fittings are NPT which means they will lock in place, they cannot come loose. This only applies to someone who does not tighten the nozzle down just loosely screws it in with their fingers. Once you tighten with a wrench your going to have to use a wrench to get it out.

Like I said that nozzle cannot come loose even with 1000psi of pressure.

Thanks for the explanation .

I still need to get back to you about the local courier cost. Also, would it be okay if I post pic of the MPV engine and let me know the recommended /appropriate location of the hobbs pressure switch and nozzle.

[rmpmla]

dvldoc, i just sent the cost of domestic courier via PAYPAL.

i have attached a picture of the MPV TDI engine and put indication where i will install the nozzle and the pressure switch. i'll just put a TEE on the existing line to install the pressure switch. would this be OK?

[4JGtootsie]

rmpmla,

I think the nozzle will be too far from the intake ports. The pressure can be mounted at the engine bay walls and a T will be spliced from pressure hose. You will need to negative tap the hobbs switch. Just a suggestion bro.

[dvldoc]

You can actually mount the nozzle anywere in the intact track. On my car for instants it is supercharged and has a small front mount intercooler on it with a lot of piping, I inject at right after the MAF sensor which is located directly behind my filter. You loose a small bit of cooling the further you mount the nozzle but it's less than a 10 degree drop on most vehicles I have checked. The lose comes from the water absorbing the heat of the intake track early on in the process. Engines are computer designed for flow the air is designed to get get from the filter to the intake and combustion chambers in a even fashion. We have not found any vehicles that do not get even distrubution as of yet.

Pre-turbo is a big debate on alot of forums as well it makes a small compressor act like a bigger one by making it more effiecent it reduces the pumping effort from the turbo. Generally that means your wastegate will be open more at full load, which reduces backpressure, and your turbo may spool a lot faster. And at 220psi proper atomization of your mix is not a problem. Theres the old tale of it destroying your impeller which is completly not true. Even aquamist is now making custom rigs for preturbo injectiion.

We will get to play with both pre and post IC injection at Clark to see the difference in gains.

I can't view your photo from work so I will have to look at it and comment later.

[dvldoc]

dvldoc, i just sent the cost of domestic courier via PAYPAL.

i have attached a picture of the MPV TDI engine and put indication where i will install the nozzle and the pressure switch. i'll just put a TEE on the existing line to install the pressure switch. would this be OK?

Now that I can see your picture, Yes that is a perfect location. I'm pretty sure that hose is 1/4" Inner diameter. Our kits come with a T fitting that will work for that. You nozzle location is also good.

I have my nozzle mounted behind the MAF sensor located just behind the air filter. As you can see on my type motor it is going about 2 meters before it gets back to the intake after going through the supercharge and intercooler. It still does the job of keeping the car detonation free and temps nice and low.

[rmpmla]

4JGtootsie thanks for the suggestions.

I can still move the nozzle nearer to the intke port by installing it on the aluminum elbow duct about 4" after my initial nozzle location.

dvldoc, thanks for the reply.

[dvldoc]

Last day of the Discount code. See you at Clark on the 22nd

[4JGtootsie]

I got this from Diesel World Magazine May 2008 issue.
title: Death of a Turbo> tech tips for longer turbo life.
They have three suggestions regarding Air supply, Lube and EGT meltdown i will concentrate on the last.

EGT MELTDOWN
" If you've been a diesel owner for a lenght of time, you've probably heard again ang again about the problems of high EGT(exhaust gas temperature). Although diesel experts' opinion vary somewhat on the precise number, typically anything much above a level of 1,250 F is the "dead zone" for a turbo. Run the engine above that temperature for even a brief amount of time, and your turbo is toast. Excessive EGT causes metal fatigue and creates heat cracks that eventually result in component failures. Intercooling can lower EGT, which is one of the best ways to prevent turbo failure.

Precise monitoring of the EGT is essential. If yor turbo diesel doesnt already have a pyrometer (a probe that measure EGT),installing one is cheap insurance against unknowingly overheating your turbo."


4JGTOOTSIE: Take note 1250 F is roughly 600-700 C. know your meter/gauge reading.
If you run EGT at 1250 C (if it doenst explode before...) then good bye happy engine days.
We have to understand that engine temp is different from combustion temeperature. From experience running it at the dead zone longer than you should, will shoot the needle of your engine temp a few seconds after. The engine temp gauge is delayed in warning you of the danger since it monitors the whole engine plus the coolant which circulate inside the engine. Turbo diesels without intercoolers should be wary of this dangers, having IC/After coolers is not also a sure thing but somewhat it lessens the temperature.

[rmpmla]

4JGtootsie, how much po ba yung EGT meter/pyrometer?
saan po dapat i-mount yung probe ng pyrometer?
do i need an EGT meter if i'm gonna install a water/alcohol injection on a TDI engine?

TIA

[4JGtootsie]

Sa Motor meter its around 4700 more expensive than boost, oil, volt.
Banawe doesnt stock it because madalang lang ang bumibili at mahal, but if you order they will get for you.

You dont need it if easy driver ka lang, but kung long, pataas at loaded trips ka lagi it is a useful for monitoring purposes. Its also a good gauge for fueling meaning the higher the egt means the more fuel you use at a given boost pressure.

Maraming pwedeng pag lagyan, depending on what you want to monitor. I monitor the exhaust temp right after it comes out of the chamber, so exhaust manifold right before it enters the turbine wheel of the turbo is where I want a reading. It varies where you can drill for the probe without obtruction to the thermocoupling and its wire.

[rmpmla]

Sa Motor meter its around 4700 more expensive than boost, oil, volt.
Banawe doesnt stock it because madalang lang ang bumibili at mahal, but if you order they will get for you.

You dont need it if easy driver ka lang, but kung long, pataas at loaded trips ka lagi it is a useful for monitoring purposes. Its also a good gauge for fueling meaning the higher the egt means the more fuel you use at a given boost pressure.

Maraming pwedeng pag lagyan, depending on what you want to monitor. I monitor the exhaust temp right after it comes out of the chamber, so exhaust manifold right before it enters the turbine wheel of the turbo is where I want a reading. It varies where you can drill for the probe without obtruction to the thermocoupling and its wire.

thanks for the reply, 4JGtootsie. maganda sanang EGT monitoring para sa before and after install of W/A injection. kaya lang me kamahalan pala ito. unahin ko muna sir yung boost gauge

[dvldoc]

W/I is one of the best things you can do to lower Exhaust gas temps, You can get temp drops as much as 200F/100C are pretty common with water injection.


If you just want cooling then you can stick to strait water you'll still gain HP but not as much, You also still get a faster spooling turbo and the cleaning effect on the internals. If you want that extra power from the alcohol which is very noticeable bump up in power.

From our UK and Aussie customers it seems 30/70 mix of alcohol/water seems to be just about the best mix for power and cooling.

High (EGT) is the main and most common cause of diesel engine damage and failure period. When pulling a heavy load especially at high elevation such where you loose boost pressure the higher you go up so you make less power and have to give it more throttle increasing your EGT's and loosing power. When you use water/alcohol injection you gain lost power back and lower your EGT's all at the same time.

Unfortunately most vehicles there either have the highly inefficient top mount intercooler which just gets heat soaked or have no IC at all making things worse. Hopefully there will be a few vehicles with EGT gauges installed at the Clark event on the 22nd so we can show the dramatic drop in EGT's. We will be carring weld in bungs for nozzles and EGT sensor probes soon.

[4JGtootsie]

Diesel Magazine May 2008

"BOOST AND TEMP
While installing a pyrometer, consider getting one of those dual gauges that show the boost level on the same readout... Louis Dawang of Collins Diesel Injection feels that the pyrometer and boost gauges are necessary complementary guages. They not only monitor the engine under general conditions, but also can help to optimize both performance and fuel economy.

As turbo enthusiast already know, boost gauge measures positive pressure in the intake manifold produced by turbocharger. The amount of pressure generated is dependent upon engine load and RPM. The higher the load(fueling), the higher the boost pressure."

[dvldoc]

Results of testing of our system at Clark on 22MARCH.
http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48442

[dvldoc]

Anyone ever get a boost controller and start running more boost?