electric powered cars

[ghosthunter]

mga sir,
tanong na rin po... pede po ba hong sabihin na ang hybrid car is much better than an electric car?

Depends on how you look at it.

The hybrid car is a stop-gap design for the transition between fossil fuel cars and pure electric cars. Hybrid cars only make the fuel go further, but in the end it still relies to gas, diesel, etc to make it go.

Another issue with hybrids is the cost and complexity. You essentially have two power systems on a single vehicle. That increases the materials and weight. Cost is added as well. At the end of the day, a hybrid car will always be more expensive than a conventional internal combustion car.

For most consumers, they don't really care of their car is a conventional car, hybrid, or electric. All they want is for their cars to be reliable, affordable to purchase and cost effective to operate within it's design lifetime. Hybrids currently fail to be affordable to buy and cost effective to operate.

Why did I say fail to be cost effective to operate? Put it this way, if you own a Prius vs a Vios, the Vios will be financially/economically ahead from the time it was purchased up to ten years later (more or less). After operating the Prius for ten years, then it might be cheaper to use the Prius, assuming you don't have to change to battery pack every two to five years. If you don't change the battery pack, the Prius becomes another ordinary fossil fuel burning car.

Making a "green" car is not simply cutting down on emissions, it should also take long hard look at the amount of materials and energy that goes into making the actual vehicle. At the same time, look at the materials themselves if they are toxic to the environment when parts and components come to their end of life cycles.

Consider that, older cars like a Corolla or a Civic or Sentra running on alternative cleaner fuels (like LPG) would actually be better than having a hybrid.

[ROAA STUDIO]

A hybrid, is, by definition, a car that can run on two sources of power. If the electric vehicle doesn't have another motor (whether it be diesel, gasoline, LPG, whatever) it's not a hybrid.

Now the Prius is a gasoline car with an electric hybrid system. The upcoming Chevrolet Volt on the other hand, is an electric car with a gasoline hybrid charging system. There's a big difference in the application. In the Prius, the electric system is there merely to supplement the gasoline system. In the Volt, the electric system provides the main motive power of the car, and the gasoline system is merely used to top-off the batteries.

sir niky

tanong na rin po.. (the gasoline system is merely used to top-off the batteries) pag nasabi po ito possible rin po na humaba po yung distance na pedeng itravel po ng mga electric cars....

[ROAA STUDIO]

sir ghosthunter

sa inyo ko po rin ito nakuha http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...ead.php?t=5527
salamat po sa link..
sir me mga katanungan din po ako kung uubra po... using yung alternator system... to recharge electric car batterries?

[ghosthunter]

sir niky

tanong na rin po.. (the gasoline system is merely used to top-off the batteries) pag nasabi po ito possible rin po na humaba po yung distance na pedeng itravel po ng mga electric cars....

It means cars like the Chevy Volt don't have a direct mechanical link from the gasoline engine to the drive wheels. The drive wheels are linked to the electric motors & battery system. You still have to carry a fossil fuel engine to charge the batteries on the fly if the stored charge starts to run low.

Cars like the Chevy Volt are meant to be an interim electric car that can extend it's driving range by supplemental power from an on-board generator. Otherwise, the power to recharge it's batteries should come from outside like power stations. The question is, is the electricity from the national grid "greener" than if you just burn fuel in a high efficiency internal combustion engine?

[ghosthunter]

sir niky

tanong na rin po.. (the gasoline system is merely used to top-off the batteries) pag nasabi po ito possible rin po na humaba po yung distance na pedeng itravel po ng mga electric cars....

It means cars like the Chevy Volt don't have a direct mechanical link from the gasoline engine to the drive wheels. The drive wheels are linked to the electric motors & battery system. You still have to carry a fossil fuel engine to charge the batteries on the fly if the stored charge starts to run low.

Cars like the Chevy Volt are meant to be an interim electric car that can extend it's driving range by supplemental power from an on-board generator. Otherwise, the power to recharge it's batteries should come from outside like power stations. The question is, is the electricity from the national grid "greener" than if you just burn fuel in a high efficiency internal combustion engine?

[niky]

Using the gasoline engine as a battery charger, the Volt can go further than a pure electric, but it's not nearly as efficient as the Toyota Prius on gasoline power, only getting fuel economy similar to a conventional gasoline-powered car despite the theoretical advantages of having the gas engine run at constant speed instead of being variable as in a normal car.

Solar panels are almost worthless. The area on a regular car that can be used for solar panels is just enough to trickle charge a tiny bit, or possibly to power a very very small electric motor (which is why solar racers are very slow, despite weighing very, very little and having five times as much solar panelling as the Prius.

[ghosthunter]

ya there are clean alternatives available

look at the electric jeepney. the goal was to replace PUJs. how'd that go?

Regarding the electric jeepneys, the problem here is that the "hype" got way over than the product's real world performance can ever deliver.

If making good electric vehicles are as simple as the people behind the e-jeep has led us to believe, then why hasn't electric vehicles taken off in more developed countries? Not to mention the hidden costs in maintaining an electric vehicle in the long run, you must consider the replacement of the expensive battery pack after it has been worn out (estimated at 500 cycles).

[uls]

GH:

why hasn't electric vehicles taken off in more developed countries?

at sa lagay na yan meron pa govt subsidy ang electric cars

Chevrolet Volt Tax Incentives and Rebates | MyChevroletVolt.com

The First 200,000 Chevrolet Volt’s qualify for $7500 in federal tax credits (After which there is a phase out schedule). Given the production volume, if you buy in the first couple of years you’ll be good.

This credit can be claimed on your tax refund. (If you manage to buy the car in 2010 – and do your taxes early without extension, this would be fastest way to get the federal credit)

Federal Tax Credit for Electric Vehicles Purchased in or after 2010

Electric vehicles (EVs) purchased in or after 2010 may be eligible for a federal income tax credit of up to $7,500. The credit amount will vary based on the capacity of the battery used to fuel the vehicle.

This credit replaces an earlier credit for EVs purchased in 2009.

Small neighborhood electric vehicles do not qualify for this credit, but they may qualify for another credit.

[cripple_rooster]

The Chevy Volt is actually not a pure-electric vehicle, it still has a gasoline-powered generator.

About replacements for the jeepneys, either a Nissan Urvan, Toyota Hiace or its Chinese copies would be suitable. There are even some versions of the Urvan fitted with jeepney-like bench seats...

[uls]

pure electric or not the Chevy Volt gets US govt subsidy

--

Nissan Urvans are used for GT express. not PUJ replacement

[ghosthunter]

I definitely wish I hadn't noticed this as I truly want a single now!

Reality hurts.

[cripple_rooster]

pure electric or not the Chevy Volt gets US govt subsidy

It's officially referred as an "extended-range" electric car.

Maybe a similar setup could even work for the jeepneys, using hub-motors to drive the rear wheels, with a genset under the hood and some battery packs where the fuel tank is currently located (since gensets usually have their own fuel tanks).

[ghosthunter]

It's officially referred as an "extended-range" electric car.

Maybe a similar setup could even work for the jeepneys, using hub-motors to drive the rear wheels, with a genset under the hood and some battery packs where the fuel tank is currently located (since gensets usually have their own fuel tanks).

Pointless to convert conventional jeepneys to electric because it's too costly to convert. The only thing left original would be the chassis and the jeepney chassis is better off as junk because it's a boat anchor (too heavy). A lighter & modern design would be a better and a big benefit to the placement of components such as genset, battery packs, power & charger controllers, etc.

Simply doing it your way will also result in a hybrid jeepney but with an efficiency LOWER of a standard jeepney on the road.

[uls]

It's officially referred as an "extended-range" electric car.

yeah whatever

Maybe a similar setup could even work for the jeepneys, using hub-motors to drive the rear wheels, with a genset under the hood and some battery packs where the fuel tank is currently located (since gensets usually have their own fuel tanks).

theories always sound good when being thrown around

but when it comes to implementation...

try to convince a jeepney operator to put "hub motors to drive the rear wheels", a "genset under the hood" and "battery packs where the fuel tank is currently located"

if you can convince a jeepney operator to do that (and shoulder the cost), mag bow ako sayo

[cripple_rooster]

I'm actually not so favorable to electric drive at all. But the genset would require a smaller engine, even a 45hp 1.3L Fiat diesel (the one used in the Uno that had been assembled by Francisco Motor Co. until 2003) could be used. About the frame, the one out of a midsize pickup such as the Hilux or the Mitsubishi Strada could serve to the purpose.

But the e-jeepney presented by Greenpeace is a joke, could barely serve as a golf cart, even a Volkswagen Kombi would be more suitable (there were some 12-seater and 15-seater versions in the Brazilian market until 2005). It's also worth to note that a Kombi would also be easy to convert to electric drive, altough it would be easier to do it in the Philippines with a high-top Hiace Commuter. And using hub-motors it would eliminate the need for a gearbox and a driveshaft, saving more space for a battery pack

[uls]

is he an engineer or something?

puro theory eh

when you think of ideas to replace the diesel jeepney please consider social, political and economic factors

di lang puro engineering

it doesnt matter how great your jeepney replacement is from a technical standpoint

if you can't sell it to operators, it's a big FAIL

[cripple_rooster]

try to convince a jeepney operator to put "hub motors to drive the rear wheels", a "genset under the hood" and "battery packs where the fuel tank is currently located"

It's just theory, I know the average jeepney driver wouldn't turn to that. It would be easier to see the jeepneys being phased out than that, since it would become too expensive, altough would be justifiable into a vehicle with a higher added value such as a high-feature van...

I'm actually not an enthusiast of electric drivelines. I'd rather drive a smoke-belching diesel jeepney than an electric vehicle.

[ghosthunter]

I'm actually not so favorable to electric drive at all. But the genset would require a smaller engine, even a 45hp 1.3L Fiat diesel (the one used in the Uno that had been assembled by Francisco Motor Co. until 2003) could be used. About the frame, the one out of a midsize pickup such as the Hilux or the Mitsubishi Strada could serve to the purpose.

But the e-jeepney presented by Greenpeace is a joke, could barely serve as a golf cart, even a Volkswagen Kombi would be more suitable (there were some 12-seater and 15-seater versions in the Brazilian market until 2005). It's also worth to note that a Kombi would also be easy to convert to electric drive, altough it would be easier to do it in the Philippines with a high-top Hiace Commuter. And using hub-motors it would eliminate the need for a gearbox and a driveshaft, saving more space for a battery pack

Ironically, an electric drive is actually good in this particular application, stop-go public transport. The reason is the high torque available in the entire speed range of the electric motor. Of course, this also means expensive parts so it doesn't really help in this specific application.

[cripple_rooster]

Ironically, an electric drive is actually good in this particular application, stop-go public transport. The reason is the high torque available in the entire speed range of the electric motor. Of course, this also means expensive parts so it doesn't really help in this specific application.

At least an electric motor doesn't need a gearbox. This eliminates some weight and friction losses, increasing the efficiency and then requiring a smaller (then lighter) battery pack.

[cripple_rooster]

Why did I say fail to be cost effective to operate? Put it this way, if you own a Prius vs a Vios, the Vios will be financially/economically ahead from the time it was purchased up to ten years later (more or less). After operating the Prius for ten years, then it might be cheaper to use the Prius, assuming you don't have to change to battery pack every two to five years. If you don't change the battery pack, the Prius becomes another ordinary fossil fuel burning car.

Making a "green" car is not simply cutting down on emissions, it should also take long hard look at the amount of materials and energy that goes into making the actual vehicle. At the same time, look at the materials themselves if they are toxic to the environment when parts and components come to their end of life cycles.

Consider that, older cars like a Corolla or a Civic or Sentra running on alternative cleaner fuels (like LPG) would actually be better than having a hybrid.

A diesel engine, altough not so easy to convert to LPG or CNG, can run on some alternative fuels such as vegetable oils (either straight or waste), biodiesel and even ethanol, while all the processes involved in the manufacturing of the battery pack of a Prius generate more emissions than a diesel-powered Euro-spec Toyota Corolla 1.4 D4-D would do in a predictable 20 years lifespan, while the battery pack of the Prius wouldn't last more than 10 years so easily.