E10 Ethanol, bad for your engine & economy? [MERGED]

[acespino2000]

SEAOIL will be launching ethanol blended gasoline on sept 1. A 10% ethanol will be blended on our gasoline products ....This is in line with the Clean Air Act program of our government and our contribution to the society thru a cleaner environment and giving livelihood to our sugarcane farmers/producers.


A 2 point increase of octane rating will be contributed to the current octane level of the gasoline....so yung unleaded the 93 RON will be 95 and yung premium from 95 RON to be 97 or 98 RON..What's good is that there will be no increase in pump prices....

Remember..ETHANOL is being used as a racing fuel.....increase in torque but fuel efficiency might suffer by 8%.





FACTS AND FICTIONS About ethanol:



Ethanol, an alcohol fuel, provides high quality, low cost octane for exceptional engine performance. Ethanol has been used in cars since Henry Ford designed his 1908 Model T to operate on alcohol. Trillions of miles have been driven on ethanol-blended fuel since 1980. In fact, several teams in national and international racing competitions use ethanol because of its high octane and exceptional performance. These professional racecar drivers will tell you: "Ethanol performs!"


Ethanol-blended fuels account for approximately 30% of all automotive fuels sold in the U.S.


With a 113 octane rating, ethanol is the highest performance fuel on the market and keeps today's high-compression engines running smoothly.





Ethanol-blended fuel keeps your fuel system clean for optimal performance because it does not leave gummy deposits.


Ethanol helps prevent wintertime problems by acting as a gas-line antifreeze.


Ethanol-blended fuels are approved under the warranties of all major auto manufacturers marketing vehicles in the U.S. Some even recommend ethanol use for its clean burning benefits.


All mainstream manufacturers of power equipment, motorcycles, snowmobiles and outboard motors permit the use of ethanol blends in their products.




Won't the use of ethanol negatively affect my vehicle's performance?

No. Ethanol is a high quality, high-octane fuel capable of reducing air pollution and improving automobile performance. Because ethanol is the highest-octane fuel on the market, it helps your car run more smoothly. It also keeps your fuel system clean for optimal performance because ethanol won't leave gummy deposits. And because ethanol burns cleaner, it produces fewer emissions. Today, all vehicle manufacturers approve the use of up to 10% ethanol blended fuels, and several even recommend ethanol use for its positive environmental impacts.

"Over the past 20 years, we've seen a whole new generation of vehicles coming into service. Auto manufacturers have made design changes to these vehicles, to make them ethanol-compatible and take advantage of ethanol's benefits," says Steve Mikesell, an ASE Master-certified mechanic from Chariton, Iowa, who has several years experience with Chevrolet and who taught auto mechanics at Lincoln Technical Institute for nearly 20 years.


Doesn't ethanol plug fuel filters?

No. The use of leaded-gasoline generally resulted in greater deposits throughout the fuel system. When cleaner gasoline with ethanol and detergents replaced leaded-gasoline beginning in the mid-1980s, there were some initial problems as deposits were flushed from the fuel system. Today, all gasolines sold in the U.S. include detergents designed to keep fuel systems clean; therefore the problem no longer exists.


Isn't ethanol bad for certain fuel system components in fuel pumps and carburetors?

No. Today's cars are built to be compatible with ethanol-blended fuels and are warranted for its use. When ethanol was first introduced in the early 1980s, some cars experienced deterioration of some elastomers (rubber-like parts) and metal in fuel system components. Very quickly manufacturers upgraded these fuel system components so that today they are all compatible with ethanol fuels.



Doesn't ethanol reduce my gas mileage?

There are many variables with regard to fuel economy, including the season, the weather, and the state of tune of the vehicle, road grade, tire pressure, and the use of air conditioners. In fact, some carbureted vehicles that run rich experience an increase in fuel economy with ethanol-blended fuels. Other tests and studies suggest that fuel economy may decrease by approximately 2% in fuel-injected cars, such that a car averaging 30 miles per gallon (MPG) on the highway would average 29.4 MPG using an ethanol-blended fuel (10% ethanol), not enough to be detected by the average driver. For E85, it has a much higher octane (ranging from 100 to 105) than gasoline. FFVs are not optimized to E85, so they experience a 5% to 15% drop in fuel economy. This will vary based on temperature and driving conditions. At the same time, the use of ethanol contributes to a cleaner environment, stronger economy, and increased energy security.


Won't ethanol-blended fuel attract moisture in fuel systems?

No. All of today's automotive fuel systems are closed systems and cannot attract moisture. The most likely cause for water in gasoline today is from service station storage tanks, which is a rare problem. Ethanol can help absorb moisture in a fuel system and carry it out in suspension as it is consumed, preventing frozen fuel lines in the winter. There is no need to add a de-icer when ethanol is used. If water contamination becomes too high, it will separate and fall to the bottom of the vehicle's fuel tank. If this happens, it is best to remove the water-contaminated fuel (dispose of it properly) and refill the tank with ethanol-blended fuel, which will absorb any trace amounts of water that remain.


Why do some mechanics recommend against ethanol use?

The introduction of new gasoline additives and reformulated gasolines has resulted in a lot of confusion. Not all auto technicians and mechanics receive factual and current information on the numerous changes that have been made in modern gasoline formulations. The need for current, accurate information prompted the Renewable Fuels Foundation to provide an educational grant for the preparation of the Changes in Gasoline Manual: The Auto Technician's Gasoline Quality Guide. The Manual is designed to ensure that service technicians have the information they need to understand fuel quality issues, both for diagnostic reasons and for the ability to convey accurate information and recommendations to the consumer. For a hard copy of the Manual or training video, please call 800/378-9974.


Won't ethanol hurt my snowmobile?

Absolutely not. In fact, due to rising concerns about emissions from snowmobiles in some recreation and wilderness areas, the use of ethanol-blended fuel is required to protect air quality. Gasoline containing up to 10% ethanol is approved by all engine warranties. Check your owner's manual. Tests completed on SkiDoo Snowmobiles showed no problems with engine parts, pistons were normal and lubrication good. Some manufacturers recommend changing to a larger main carburetor jet size when operating on oxygenated fuel.


Won't ethanol hurt my motorboat?

No. In fact, ethanol is the oxygenate of choice in some water-recreation areas because of its clean air and clean water benefits. In the absence of ethanol, more of these areas would become off-limits to personal watercraft. The results of extensive testing by Mercury Marine operating 30 different watercraft on ethanol-blended gasolines found that there were "no malfunctions or operational driving difficulties attributable to ethanol blends." In addition, multiple phase separation tests were conducted during this period and "no phase separation was noted." Honda, Kawasaki, Mercury Marine, OMC (Johnson/Evinrude), Pleasurecraft, Tigershark (Artco), Tracker and Yamaha allow the use of ethanol fuels in their products. Click here to view warranty statements.


Won't ethanol harm my lawnmower?

No. Tests completed on lawnmowers, chainsaws, weed trimmers and blower vacs with ethanol fuels showed no engine failures, no unscheduled maintenance and good performance. Small engine manufacturers have long permitted the use of ethanol fuels.



www.ethanolrfa.org or www.seaoil.com.ph

[ghosthunter]

its been reported by some users of ethanol blended gasolines in the US that it gives less milage than straight gasoline.

[mbt]

i think race cars use methanol, not ethanol hehe. methanol is 135 octane but is toxic to humans

[altec]

So why is it stated in my kia sedona manual on page 5-3, special mention ang gasoline containing alcohol and methanol, na maximum 10% lang ng ethanol, and 0% methanol. Ethanol is known as grain alcohol, while methanol is known as wood alcohol daw.
Vehicle damage or driveability problems may not be covered by the warranty if they result from the use of 1. gasohol containing more than 10% ethanol, 2. gasoline or gasohol containing methanol, 3. leaded fuel or leaded gasohol. BUT, nothing mentioned about diesel.

[Karding]

.What's good is that there will be no increase in pump prices....

Ethanol is replacing MTBE. But what Ethanol is supposed to do is decrease the price. Whats so good about this for consumers? Manufacturers will spend less on Ethanol but yet, prices will stay the same. Wow, its really good...good for oil F'ers.

Ethanol to Fuel IndyCar Series

Beginning with the 2006 season, the Indy Racing League's IndyCar® Series will be fueled by American-made ethanol.



“The American Coalition for Ethanol is extraordinarily proud that the IndyCar Series has made ethanol its fuel of choice,” said Brian Jennings, ACE Executive Vice President. “When we had our first discussions three years ago, we dared to dream that ethanol could be the fuel to power the Indy Racing League. Now ethanol will prove its high performance merits in an incredible venue, and the U.S. ethanol industry is grateful for the opportunity and eager to get started.”



In a March 3, 2005 announcement at Union Station on Capitol Hill in Washington, DC, Indy Racing League and ethanol industry officials explained that the 2006 IndyCar Series will be fueled by a blend of 90% methanol – the league's current racing fuel – and 10% ethanol. The 2007 series will be powered by 100% ethanol.

[buknoy2002]

its been reported by some users of ethanol blended gasolines in the US that it gives less milage than straight gasoline.

so kung same price tapos decrease in mileage....

y pa ako mag ethanol ?


another question, pwede ba lagyan ng acetone yung ethanol blended gas? me savings din kaya?

[yebo]

basahin nyo kasi ng buo yung article. E85 (or 85% ethanol/15% gasoline) fuel po yung nag-decrease ang mileage nila. sa E10 (10% ethanol/90% gasoline) almost same mileage lang. jumping to conclusions naman kayo e.

sabi na nga "a little knowledge is dangerous". if you are fully informed then the conclusion will be totally different. read the whole thing and be informed of all the facts.

[Karding]

buti na lang may mga taong maraming knowledge kagaya mo. At mabuti na lang may mga Forum na ganito, para madagdagan ang pagkakaron ko ng little knowledge.

Ethanol is a homegrown fuel that results in job creation, increased farm income, improved air quality, and greater energy independence by reducing imports of foreign oil.

Looks like they are trying to make it sound as if Ethanol blends are going to save us from these oil prices.

[Mojo]

kung parehos lang naman presyo dun na tayo sa local, ethanol pwede mangagaling sa sugarcane, pag naging patok yung ethanol magkakaroon ng trabaho at negosya yung mga sugar plantations.

dun na tayo sa ethanol at least magkakaroon tayo ng kaunti security kasi nga hehe 15% na fuel requirement, ethanol hehehe

[falken]

kung parehos lang naman presyo dun na tayo sa local, ethanol pwede mangagaling sa sugarcane, pag naging patok yung ethanol magkakaroon ng trabaho at negosya yung mga sugar plantations.

dun na tayo sa ethanol at least magkakaroon tayo ng kaunti security kasi nga hehe 15% na fuel requirement, ethanol hehehe

Yup, if we can have at least 10% savings from our annual oil importation, it would mean a lot for a poor country like ours. Farmers would benefit and so would our air quality.

[Karding]

Ang pinagtataka ko lang, kahit na may Ethanol blend ang gas bakit hindi bumababa and presyo ng gas? for example, nung 1994 pa may Ethanol ang gas sa US stations. But yet, the prices are the same. So, nasaan ang "savings" na tinatawag ng mga Ethanol producers and Oilers?

Kahit yata tubeg ihalo sa gas ganun pa din ang prices :bwahaha:

[falken]

Ang pinagtataka ko lang, kahit na may Ethanol blend ang gas bakit hindi bumababa and presyo ng gas? for example, nung 1994 pa may Ethanol ang gas sa US stations. But yet, the prices are the same. So, nasaan ang "savings" na tinatawag ng mga Ethanol producers and Oilers?

Kahit yata tubeg ihalo sa gas ganun pa din ang prices :bwahaha:

Nasa bulsa ng gas station owners.
Dapat naman talaga kahit papaano may konting savings, lalo na ngayong $65/bbl ang crude oil compared to Ethanol $22/bbl.

[Mojo]

Karding

hindi naman goal ng pag halo ng ethanol ng gas is cost reduction, more like forex savings at import substitution.

Kasi nga ethanol is not cheap to produce, but as petroleum prices rise it becomes more attractive, pero same dilemna din yan ng oil refineries, as they produce more ethanol, drill/extract oil from expensive wells, you need capital investment at cost per barrell increases.

Kaya ang mahal ng Petroleum prices ngayon, kasi nag bubuffer na ang opec ng pera para sa pag drill/extract sa mga oil deposits na mahal i extract per barrel para lang I meet ang world demand.

sa ethanol ganun din, kailangan ng capital/refinery plus raw supply ng biomass para secrued ang supply, kaya ganun presyo kasi accounted na ang lahat ng mga ganun.

[Mojo]

kaya pag ginawa natin 10% blend ethanol sigurado tataas ang price ng ethanol kasi nga ganun ang batas sa economics. para ma meet ang demand, expensive sources ang pagkukunan pag hindi na kayanan ng cheapest source

[Karding]

Karding

hindi naman goal ng pag halo ng ethanol ng gas is cost reduction, more like forex savings at import substitution.

Kasi nga ethanol is not cheap to produce,

Please read:

Ethanol is a homegrown fuel that results in job creation, increased farm income, improved air quality, and greater energy independence by reducing imports of foreign oil.

Kaya nga, import substitition is supposed to mean savings dahil hindi na dependent sa foreign oil. Well, ito ang argument ng Ethanol producers.

Pero kagaya ng sabi ko, walang epekto ang Ethanol na yan sa prices dahil 1994 pag nagumpisa mag Ethanol ang ibang Gas stations sa US pero wala namang epek sa prices.

Green lang talaga ang nagpapataas ng oil prices.

Eto Mojo, magandang basahin ito kung saan nabanggit ang cost savings kapag nag ethanol.

http://ethanol.org/

[Karding]

As I've mentioned earlier, Ethanol is replacing MTBE. That was the original plan and not to reduce cost.

California was one of the first states to ban the gasoline additive methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) after it was detected in ground water. Ethanol, a non-petroleum product usually made from corn, is being used in place of MTBE. Gasoline without MTBE is more expensive to produce and requires refineries to change the way they produce and distribute gasoline. Some supply dislocations and price surges occurred in the summer of 2003 as the State moved away from MTBE. Similar problems have also occurred in past fuel transitions.

Page last modified on Fri Aug 20 2004 10:43:19 GMT-0700 (Pacific Daylight Time). http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/brochure...mer/primer.htm


But yet, this statement contradicts the above:

American-made, renewable ethanol directly displaces the amount of crude oil we need to import, offering our country critically needed independence and security from foreign sources of energy.

Current U.S. ethanol production of 3.5 billion gallons per year can reduce gasoline imports by 35% and effectively extends gasoline supplies at a time when refining capacity is at its maximum. The 5 billion gallon ethanol production level contemplated in the Renewable Fuels Standard could reduce oil imports by nearly 350,000 barrels per day.


Ethanol is key to reducing our country’s trade deficit in crude oil, a figure that has been steadily increasing.

http://ethanol.org/energy.html page is current.

Economics shouldnt be that hard. Produce your product locally and minimize importing, could only mean savings. But GREED supersedes economics.

[yebo]

ever seen an oilman? ako nakakita na, ceo ng unocal. mukhang buwaya. need i say more?

[Juan Tamad]

New oil firms import 2.5 M liters of ethanol from Brazil

By MYRNA M. VELASCO


To jumpstart the utilization of ethanol as blend to gasoline products, the country’s small oil companies have imported ethanol from Brazil initially at 2.5 million liters, in time for the scheduled introduction of the product in the market by next month.

A second shipment of a higher volume of 5.0 million liters is also coming in November, to sustain the market’s needs, according to SeaOil president Glen Yu.

Pressed on how much is the acquisition cost of the ethanol product on a per liter basis, the oil firms which have planned of using it as additive by at least 10-percent blend in at least 400 gasoline stations by next month — to include Flying V and Unioil, said it’s not actually that cheap if compared to prevailing cost of gasoline.

But they noted that it will bring cost savings to consumers in the form of mileage efficiency; such as through improvement in octane ratings.

Initial estimates have indicated that if the targeted efficiency of the vehicle’s run would be achieved, this would translate to an equivalent P0.70 per liter savings for the motorists.

Yu said importation is currently the option for them, since much of the alternative fuels, which it could utilize either as blend or replacement to oil products are still under development. It would be noted that the first ethanol plant would still still be up for commercial operation in 2007.

Tapping alternative fuels has been one of the government’s policy direction to partly address the raging problem of escalating oil prices in the world market.

Brazil is currently the world’s largest ethanol producer; and is even using the product as a replacement fuel; and as reports put, this has been giving the country a lot of cost savings, especially at this time when global oil prices are on steady surge.

Its foray into ethanol production started way back the 70’s; as an upshot of the first oil shock which sent import-dependent market literally begging for supply. Reports have it that from the 1970s to the late ‘90s, ethanol yields per acre in Brazil had risen from 242 to 593 gallons.

With the importation mode being embraced by the new oil players, the other side of the argument being set forth is on whether or not estimated cost reductions would be realized; since freight alone may already eat up a significant chunk of the costs. It was further stressed that this may become a self-defeating strategy if one has to take it from goals of cornering in the much-needed foreign exchange savings and bids for the country’s energy independence.

A study earlier commissioned by the United States Agency for International Development — Sustainable Energy Development Program (USAID — SEDP) for the Philippine government entitled Techno-Economic Assessment of Ethanol as Alternative Transportation Fuel; indicated that the cost of ethanol production using molasses as feedstock is estimated at P16 to 24 per liter for feedstock costs of P2 to 3 per kilogram.

The study also set forth that sugarcane and corn were found to be economically suitable for fuel ethanol production. Project blueprints already set out by government and private sector, however, give preference to sugarcane, via the use of molasses as feedstock in ethanol production.

[RafRaf]

I guess the question is who will be saving... who ends up with the extra money? Is it the consumers or the oilers or the government?

And I guess ethanol for gasolune isn't what biodiesel is for diesel.

[wac3]

guys recently, seaoil announced that all their gasoline products will be mixed with ethanol starting september 1 yata. what is ethanol and how does it affect the mixture in gasoline? i think the government will impose the law that all gasoline products here must have ethanol by year 2006 yata eh.