Auto-LPG Conversion Thread

[russpogi]

what's the difference nga pala between CNGs and LPGs?

Oo nga! Ano difference?

[StraightSix]

Oo nga! Ano difference?

Broadly speaking ...

Liquified Petroleum Gas (LPG) is compatible with petrol/gasoline engines. Typically the gas is mostly propane with some butane derived mainly from oil refineries. From an environmental pov, LPG is cleaner than petrol or diesel, although it is still a fossil fuel and thus its use, as a whole, still contributes to global pollution.

Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) is a natural gas and is more compatible with heavy diesel vehicles. Because it is not liquefied it has a lower energy density and is stored at very high pressures. These factors are a disadvantage for CNG, as storage and vehicle tanks have to be robust and heavy because of the high pressure requirement.

It's a good thing that LPG conversion is now available in the Philippines ... I wouldn't worry too much about the unavailability of smaller tanks at the moment. In the UK market they offer all sorts of sizes, including donuts where your spare tire used to be (meron na kasing run-flat tires). Being bi-fuel means that if you run out of LPG, you can still use gasoline to reach your destination or the next LPG station.

Safety-wise ... A properly installed LPG system is safer than your normal gasoline fuel system. The problem at the moment is the absence in the Philippines of an inspecting body that would certify as safe any LPG conversion that has been done.

[ghosthunter]

Just came from the world trade center where the LPG conversion kit is being exhibited. Kinda impressed with the LPG conversion kit. Even with the high initial purchase cost, it seems to be the most viable alternative to saving money with your car.

[ghosthunter]

LPG converted Mitsu Lancer

[ghosthunter]

LPG converted Toyota Corolla 1.3L

[Auto_Xer]

Wala ba silang nakakabit sa EFI engine? Or does it require more conversion to install?

[ghosthunter]

unfortunately they didn't bring an EFI car with LPG conversion. basically its about the same with an EFI car.

[jvm13]

Do they convert old cars? mine kasi is a 1977 benz that has a carb engine..

[ghosthunter]

Do they convert old cars? mine kasi is a 1977 benz that has a carb engine..

they can... the pics I took are LPG conversion kits for carb engines.

[butchokuy]

*gh --> sa engine, la bang gagalawin? me idagdag o ibabawas?

dba malilito ang mga mekaniko in case nagpaservice tyo ng mga regular tear and wear maintenance?

standard ba ang kit(efi or carb kit)? i mean yng ginamit sa corolla e pde din sa lancer?

[jvm13]

ok..so where exactly are the shops that convert cars to run on LPG? GH, do you plan to get your car converted?

[ghosthunter]

*gh --> sa engine, la bang gagalawin? me idagdag o ibabawas?

well, four places.

1. LPG tank (in the trunk)
2. LPG system (vaporizer, mixer, etc) in the engine bay
3. LPG filler "connector" (bumper or at gas cap)
4. LPG/gasoline selector switch (somewhere inside the car cabin)

dba malilito ang mga mekaniko in case nagpaservice tyo ng mga regular tear and wear maintenance?

nope.

standard ba ang kit(efi or carb kit)? i mean yng ginamit sa corolla e pde din sa lancer?

yup. Fits most cars... two main problems though.

1. getting the standard LPG to fit some SUVs and ultra small cars but there are smaller LPG tanks available for those.
2. bigger engined vehicles (3.0L to 5.0L) will require a much bigger LPG vaporizer than those for standard 1.3L to 1.6L cars.

[ghosthunter]

ok..so where exactly are the shops that convert cars to run on LPG?

Currently petron and NAIADSS installs them. Pilipinas-Shell is planning to launch their LPG system by December 2005. For more info, contact them.


Petron:
tel: 671-9817
fax: 671-2689
email: gasul*petron.com
website: www.petron.com


NAIADSS:
2604 Orient Square Bldg, Don Francisco Ortigas Jr. Rd
Ortigas Center, Pasig City.
tel: 687-7970 687-1659 6879151
fax: 687-9207
email: naiadss*pldtdsl.net
(They can install the LPG system at your home or office.)

GH, do you plan to get your car converted?

yup, but not yet sure which system. Why? Because the filler valve for NAIADSS is different and NOT compatible with the filler system for petron and vice versa. The good news is that NAIADSS "might" have an adapter to make their system compatible with petron.

[JAYarc]

Broadly speaking ...

Liquified Petroleum Gas (LPG) is compatible with petrol/gasoline engines. Typically the gas is mostly propane with some butane derived mainly from oil refineries. From an environmental pov, LPG is cleaner than petrol or diesel, although it is still a fossil fuel and thus its use, as a whole, still contributes to global pollution.

Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) is a natural gas and is more compatible with heavy diesel vehicles. Because it is not liquefied it has a lower energy density and is stored at very high pressures. These factors are a disadvantage for CNG, as storage and vehicle tanks have to be robust and heavy because of the high pressure requirement.

any idea how many quantity or ratio of CNG can stored on LPG tank, kasi cng is much cheaper ehh at local produced pa hehe..

[jvm13]

Currently petron and NAIADSS installs them. Pilipinas-Shell is planning to launch their LPG system by December 2005. For more info, contact them.


Petron:
tel: 671-9817
fax: 671-2689
email: gasul*petron.com
website: www.petron.com


NAIADSS:
2604 Orient Square Bldg, Don Francisco Ortigas Jr. Rd
Ortigas Center, Pasig City.
tel: 687-7970 687-1659 6879151
fax: 687-9207
email: naiadss*pldtdsl.net
(They can install the LPG system at your home or office.)




yup, but not yet sure which system. Why? Because the filler valve for NAIADSS is different and NOT compatible with the filler system for petron and vice versa. The good news is that NAIADSS "might" have an adapter to make their system compatible with petron.

ok thanks GH! I'll look into this. Please keep us updated also on any new info regarding this as well as the installation of the LPG system in your car.thanks!

[ghosthunter]

any idea how many quantity or ratio of CNG can stored on LPG tank, kasi cng is much cheaper ehh at local produced pa hehe..

CNG requires a stronger storage tank. A stronger storage tank means it will be heavier, too heavy to be practical for standard cars to carry in their trunks.

[devz]

I'm currently working on a company that converts cars to run on LPG. We're using Italian made products and Euro standards 67R-01. If you guys are intersted just call AMBIENERGY ENTERPRISES INC. at 412 7100

[impulzz]

guys paki list naman pros and cons ng lpg conversion...

[niky]

Pros:
* Cheaper than gas
* Conversion relatively cheap

Cons:
* Low mileage, means you'll have to fill up more often... still cheaper per kilometer
* Engine longevity?

I talked to a mechanic who has had experience in the past with LPG conversions (70's)... he talked about shortened overhauling intervals, and from his tone, I'm guess the old conversions were running a bit too lean for the engines (burning up pistons and valves)... is there any data on engine wear for the current systems?

Also, I've noted on other boards that there are conversions for EFI engines in Europe. One guy is running his 2.0 Protege on "Autogas" (I assume it's LPG and not CNG). But the literature on LPG effects is kinda sparse... gh?

[ghosthunter]

guys paki list naman pros and cons ng lpg conversion...

Pro:

1. cheaper cost of fuel - auto LPG is cheaper by 12.60 pesos per liter at current rates (before EVAT). Although LPG gets less milage (per liter) than gasoline, overall the cost per kilometer with LPG is still much lower than with gasoline.

2. cleaner exhaust - as combustion is made easier for the engine due to the
type of fuel used, it is easier on the environment as there is less emissions.

3. dual fuel system -switch between LPG & gasoline anytime. Its even possible to drive from metro manila to baguio and back without refueling if you started with both fuel tanks full.

4. less maintenance cost - oil life is extended and the need to change oil less frequent.



Con:

1. limited refilling stations. NAIADSS will have 2 in November and a third station by December 2005. Petron will have 10 stations operational by Feb 2006.

NAIADSS stations: (for installation & refilling)
pioneer rd, mandaluyong city - November 2005
edsa ext, pasay city - november 2005
visayas ave, qc - december 2005

PETRON refilling: (currently operational)
petron station * Valle verde 1 c-5 rd ugong, pasig city (also installs LPG kits)
petron station * sen. gil puyat ave corner makati ave makati city


2. expensive LPG kits. its about P30,000 to P35,000 for a typical EFI engined car. Slightly cheaper for carb engines. Note: even if the kit is expensive, its still cheaper than buying a new fuel efficient car.

3. a major portion of your trunk will be used up by the LPG tank. approximately 1/4 to 1/3 trunk space will be used up in a typical 1.6 sedan


==============

Note: those old LPG conversion kits that had problems because they were adjusted to run too lean. This meant damaged engine parts in the long run. The current LPG kits will be adjusted after they are installed to run correctly, not too rich nor too lean.