Which Van is the best to use as an AMBULANCE?

[bigcawa]

Doc Otep,

The pulse ox I believe was purchased from one of the local medical supply stores in Manila, which one, I can't recall. It was not overly expensive though. The AED, like most of the major equipment in the ambulance, was supplied by International SOS. It came with spare pads and battery. Ito yata ang medyo mahal.

[OTEP]

Conrico - Ambulance Ford Everest Ambulance Conversions, Ring for best prices, 2009 - cars & vehicles for sale

FORD EVEREST Ambulance Conversion:

[OTEP]

Conrico - Ambulance Ford Everest Ambulance Conversions, Ring for best prices, 2009 - cars & vehicles for sale

FORD EVEREST Ambulance Conversion:

[cripple_rooster]

FORD EVEREST Ambulance Conversion:

This one makes me remember some old ambulances from Brazilian Army


As far as off-road capability and riding comfort go, a SUV-based ambulance can be a good option, but the internal height is not so adequated. I have already seen very few with raised roofs, using fiberglass extensions...

[OTEP]

Let's turn this into a Royal Rumble. What can you say of the following units?

Brand New:
Foton View Ambulance Package (standard wheelbase, high roof)
Foton View Passenger Van (long wheelbase, standard roof) with aftermarket conversion
Isuzu i-Van (have they released it yet?)
Jinbei Haise Ambulance Package (I think it's a standard wheelbase with a standard roof)

Brand New or Used:
Hyundai Starex new body (same as UNTV ambulance)
Nissan Urvan Escapade (current unit we have in the Volunteer brigade)
Nissan Urvan Grand Estate (current hospital unit)
Toyota Hiace Commuter or Grandia

Used:
ex-USA Ford E350 series Type II Ambulance (usually 2000 model). Around Php1.2M?
ex-USA Ford F350 series Type I Ambulance (usually 2000 model). Around Php1.6M?
Hyundai Starex Jumbo (local)
ex-KDM Hyundai Starex Ambulance
ex-KDM Kia Bongo Ambulance (automatic transmission, sometimes all wheel drive)
1997 Mercedes Benz MB100 (ours since it was brand new)
Toyota Hiace Grandia (older body with 3.0 diesel)

Thanks!

[niky]

Haven't driven the I-van (hehehe... "Ivan"), but I've sat in it and fiddled with the controls. Seems about the same as the View... or worse... really notchy gearshift and stiff clutch. Very truckish. I'm trying to get a test-drive now.

If you can believe it, interior trim is worse than the Chinese van. The mall-tour I-van has molded in air vents that are already wavy, just a month or two out of the factory... It really looks and feels like a converted truck inside... just with a stamped steel body instead of an FB box.

Good news: Huge space. Suspension capable of carrying lots and lots of equipment.

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The E-350... absolute love. Absolute beast of a working truck, and really wide, so there's space to move around inside. But crap on gas, obviously. Maybe if you make an enclosure/rack for oxygen bottles, one of them can be an LPG tank stuck to a conversion kit up front.

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New Starex is actually pretty wide and with good headroom (nowhere near as good as the E350), but I wonder if it's long enough for ambulance duty. Drives fantastic, though, even in TDiC form. Pretty practical car.

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Old Starex - Don't they still sell the Jumbo bodies at dealerships for commercial use?

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MB100 is FWD, right? Interesting choice... unlike other box-vans, it has a low and flat loading floor which should make it suited to ambulance use. As long as you're not using it in Baguio. The gear ratios are wholly unsuited to hill-climbing.

[OTEP]

Thanks for the inputs niky!

i-Van: Yep, feels like any run of the mill NKR. Not even sure if it has power door locks (something I find essential in an ambulance). The add-on trim is good by local standards but not so even by Chinese standards. The rear quarter panel also has an ungainly grille to hide the rear a/c which is also mounted kinda too low (same level as the wheels?). The swinging side door might be an issue in confined spaces (it's a big door!) unlike the swing doors on the Ford ambulances which open 50/50.

But I love the space. Enough gear not only for basic and advanced life support equipment but also for fire and rescue gear (if you intend to use it for that purpose).

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E350: Niky, up until recently U.S. federal regulations have mandated diesels in ambulances. Something about meeting underhood engine temp requirements or something especially when a lot of ambulances DO NOT TURN OFF their engines for days on end. It's also the reason why a lot of rigs have engine-hour meters (now standard equipment even on non-ambulance models) to augment the odometers. The E350 is powered by a 7.3liter powerstroke diesel engine made by International Navistar for Ford. Due to the semi-cab over design, working on the engine is total PITA and the passenger side footwell is so pinched. Oh and it's got dual alternators and up to 5 batteries (depending on who did the conversion). The F350 uses the same engine and might be easier to work on from a maintenance standpoint considering that the whole engine is up front.

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New Starex: I bet this one drives nicely. UNTV has 'em so I guess they are workable as an ambulance. Just have not had the chance to look inside. Some conversion companies use painfully thin and narrow squad benches to make space (at the expense of killing my *ss). I asked lui a few months back and they don't sell the old ones nowadays and instead offered a VERY basic ambulance package for the new Starex (which I think is too basic).

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MB100. Yep FWD with tons of space inside. And I know the complete history of the vehicle. We have a local unit which uses lower gear ratios (at the expense of top speed). I've used to to Baguio already and it seems to hold up quite well so long as you don't upshift to early. Other drivers don't watch the tach and play it by ear. Something you can't do to the MB100 because the engine is inherently noisy and sounds like its gonna grenade itself even if you are well within operating limits.

[vinj]

MB100. Yep FWD with tons of space inside. And I know the complete history of the vehicle. We have a local unit which uses lower gear ratios (at the expense of top speed). I've used to to Baguio already and it seems to hold up quite well so long as you don't upshift to early. Other drivers don't watch the tach and play it by ear. Something you can't do to the MB100 because the engine is inherently noisy and sounds like its gonna grenade itself even if you are well within operating limits.

I agree... never listen to the engine of the MB100. Ours used to make it up to Baguio and Tagaytay Highlands although in some areas you're redlining at 1st and 2nd gear. Binabalot pa namin yung shifter ng trapo to lessen the noise. It still one of the best vans for me in terms of space layout. Too bad reliability, when it got old, really became bad... after every long trip it would go straight to the shop for one repair or another.

[niky]

Okay. Have driven the Foton Ambulance, finally, as part of road evaluation I'm carrying out for our hospital director.

Reactions:

The interior trim is better than the i-Van. Which isn't saying much. You'll go nuts trying to adjust the aircon vents because they're very loose (though they look okay).

The gearshift and clutch are as bad as I remembered the passenger View's units to be. Definitely below L300 or KC2700 level, which are the epitome of usability in comparison. Steering and stability are about what you'd expect on a van like this with tall tires. Not any worse than the last KC2700 I drove. The power delivery is punchy, but uneven. Lags down low, then it picks up and lurches higher up.

The rear is high roofed, so headroom and working room are good, despite the narrowness.

The bad news. No ABS. And the brake bias is still very rear-heavy, like the passenger van. Remember our discussion of a while back? I think this picture will explain it all:



That's the rear tires at just 30 km/h, with noticeable drifting to one side. The driver was shocked. The security guard ran over to us and asked us if there was a problem. Me, not worried... I already knew about this...

Now imagine that's at 100 km/h. If you're driving it, Otep, no issue. You know how it is to drive with no ABS and little grip. You'll treat it carefully. But if it's your typical company driver...

We will probably change out the rear tires for grippier Japanese rubber, should help curb this problem in the dry. But I'm going to make a request for a brake bias controller through the Hospital director. In the meantime, I'm taking every single driver out in that ambulance and showing them just what happens if they drive like they own the road. Should be educational.

[OTEP]

niky,

Thanks for the heads up. Loosey goosey a/c vents are a pet peeve of mine. Same issue on our MB100. Probably turned out that way because there was no way to close the a/c vent and passengers kept fiddling with it. Can the vents of the View ambulance be closed? Btw, the View Passenger unit uses a different dashboard.

Would adjusting the load sensing proportioning valve help? That's what we do on 4x4's after doing a lift or any suspension work to retain normal brake bias.

I agree on getting better rubber.

Vinj,

Our MB100 unit is holding up well except for some overheating on top speed runs but I think its something that Jorge (my radiator guy) can work on. We no longer use it for long trips, though. Nothing wrong with it but because our schedules now preclude traveling in one vehicle. hehe.

[niky]

The AC Vents aren't too bad. They actually fit rather squarely in their mounts. It simply feels like someone forgot to put in the rubber stuff on the pivots to keep them from free-wheeling.

The steering wheel is high-mounted, like a truck (again, similar to the L300/KC set), but it's non adjustable, and at 5'5", it obscures the lower part of the instrument gauges for me. The interior is indeed different from the passenger van, which is a good thing. No chintzy cheap looking finishes or fiddly electric switches. The side mirrors aren't adjustable... you simply swivel them left and right on their mounts. The light bar integration looks good, with a rubber grommet sealing the channel for the wiring into the body. There's a formica (or something) partition between the front and rear and a shelf made of the same stuff. The stretcher comes standard. The roof is incredibly high. Only thing I can think of that comes close in terms of headroom is the Starex Jumbo commercial variant.


Functional, sturdy looking interior


Great scott... headroom!


No-name Chinese tires...



Have to admit, it looks good...

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If we can't find the proportioning valve, then we will try the tire solution and a good set of Federal Mogul or Bendix front brake pads. Doesn't seem right to have to drive an ambulance with several hundred pounds of ballast just to keep the rear brakes from locking!

[vinj]

Vinj,

Our MB100 unit is holding up well except for some overheating on top speed runs but I think its something that Jorge (my radiator guy) can work on. We no longer use it for long trips, though. Nothing wrong with it but because our schedules now preclude traveling in one vehicle. hehe.

In fairness, ours never broke down during a long trip... afterwards lang. :D Kulang nalang, prior to our trips we already schedule with the mechanic for repairs pag balik. Its long been replaced by a Hiace Grandia which has good space but just plain sucks in interior appointments and seat comfort.

Given the choices, i would still avoid the Chinese ambulances and go with either the old Urvan or a Hiace Grandia mainly due to its tried and tested drivetrain and availability.

Correct me if im wrong but for me, outright speed isn't really a first requirement with an ambulance since there strobe lights and a siren to get you through most traffic conditions during an emergency. I'd prioritize reliability, maneuverability/controllability of the vehicle to make sure the paramedics and the principal patient get to their destination efficiently and safely, and that there is more than ample interior space to allow for the required equipment and for the paramedics to move about while enroute.

Grand Starex Limousine - ambulance perhaps?

How is the reliability of a used, 2000 model E150 ambulance?

[zap.FREEDOM]

Isuzu is offering an ambulance variant for I-Van but they also have an Isuzu IPV ambulance, Here in the municipality of San Pedro, the local government bought a brand new ambulance unit and yes it is an Isuzu IPV, I'm not sure if it really a variant of IPV or it is just converted by our local municipality.

[OTEP]

niky, great pics! [please bear with my long post and tons of questions]

Coming from the emergency services, the siren and emergency lights of the Foton unit leave a lot to be desired. I can barely hear a Foton ambulance when it's forcing its way thru traffic and a lot of units already have dead lamps (roof strobes no longer fire or dim out) even when relatively new. No match for the private unit I work for which uses Federal Signal and Whelen components (what the PSG uses to clear traffic) or the volunteer unit which has a Woodway light bar and Premier Hazard siren (an established UK brand). Swapping in branded components isn't really a problem except for the price. A good used Federal/Whelen siren is around Php20k while the light bar retails for Php100k (new?).

Mind the roof ventilator niky. As the part is unpainted and the plastic tends to turn brittle in no time (especially when cleaned with detergents) at all leading to cracks in the ventilator housing. I suggest getting it painted body color for some UV protection. AFAIK, if the housing breaks, it can let water in. On the U.S. ambulances, there is a dash plate saying how tall the vehicle is both in feet and in meters to remind the drivers that this isn't a 2.1 meter tall vehicle. Can this still squeeze through the tollway as a Class 1 vehicle?

The Hiace clone interior is still quite handsome. Again, can the side dash vents be closed manually without introducing outside air? I hope it isn't as prone to rattles as the dashboard in our '06 Urvan ambulance rattles like crazy!

The prop valve is the springy thing on top of the rear axle. =)

More questions:
1. How much 'Toyota' is this vehicle. I understand that the body is dimensionally similar (taillamps swap right in). But how about suspension or brake components?
2. Will the engine take on Isuzu parts? How is power? You have engine compartment photos? Where is the air cleaner on this thing?
3. It comes with front and rear foglamps, right? (they are required in China)
4. How is the quality of the woodwork? Does the cabin partition or cabinet doors rattle?
5. The stretcher legs do 'stand up,' right? So I don't have to put the patient on the floor level when at the E.R. like in some el cheapo ambulances whose stretchers are not adjustable.
6. The radio has 2 speakers? Is it a cassette unit? Not really important, just curious. haha
7. How's the airconditioning when at a standstill on a hot day?

Our volunteer unit with tons of cabinet space on the side. Contains the spine board, scoop stretcher, etc. Looks like a similar set up will work on the View:



Private unit with Whelen Light bar and high visibility 'battenburg' pattern:


Nissan Urvan Grand Estate Unit here at the hospital (love that ZD30 motor!):

[OTEP]

F350 unit for sale locally (asking Php1.5M):



Engine hour meter and Whelen equipment on the Type II Ford E350 private ambulance unit:



Vinj,

The Urvan Escapade is dead reliable but it feels old and there are some things that I'm not too fond of on it:
*The air cleaner is UNDER the floor of the 2nd row. Forgivable, I guess, considering the current Hiace has them under the front passenger's feet (but with a snorkel going up to the right headlamp).
*The dash rattles like crazy!
*Antiquated ergonomics
*Seats not comfy (feels like a church pew)
*A bit down on power (can't keep up with the big boy's fire trucks)

The current Hiace costs a bit more $$$ than a View even in commuter guise and you still have to contend with the cost of conversion. Not that the View is complete but you'd need less effort to configure it to spec as most pieces are already in.

Speed isn't really the priority. But a unit with good acceleration is a must if you want to take command of the road when responding. The current Hiace has the power but it sits a bit too low (at least the front bumper does) that you can't attack bad roads kamikaze style (which we do on the Urvan when we are responding to house calls). Yes, we also need good all around visibility and a tight turning circle. Good ride quality benefits the patient also.

A local used E150 can be turned into an ambulance. I just can't imagine the fuel economy. But it is feasible if budget permits

Our MB100 drinking. hehe:


The front engine layout of the MB100 is incidentally easier to work on than the under-seat engine of the View, Hiace, Urvan, etc.

[niky]

I'll check again... Thanks for the ambulance tips!

The stretcher doesn't look adjustable... I'll have another eyeball...

[vinj]

Our MB100 drinking. hehe:


The front engine layout of the MB100 is incidentally easier to work on than the under-seat engine of the View, Hiace, Urvan, etc.

Ang arte ni MB100, kelangan pa ng bottled water pag uhaw :D

Yeah, i just realized the Urvan 2.7 engine will be slow with all that weight. The ZD30 Estate is nice and torquey, does it encounter the same problems as the Patty?

The E350 rocks although it must be hard to maneuver and will eat into your gas allowance like crazy.

[niky]

The F350 is awesome in terms of space, but it's way too wide. I think our Las Pinas branch has one.

E350... I think some secondhands are actually available with diesel. Yun nga lang... parts, parts, parts... I've only seen them available secondhand rarely, though...

[OTEP]

A good Stryker or Ferno stretcher retails for $$$ even for a used one. AFAIK, the Foton unit, deploys its wheels as you pull it out of the ambulance. Saving the patient the dignity of lying on the floor at the E.R. or looking up the skirts of doctors are you wheel around the hospital. At least that's what it says on the brochure photos. I hope the final product also adjusts.

E350's are all diesels. And you get parts from the International/Navistar dealer because the engine is made by them. Most body parts interchange with the regular E150 It's hard to maneuver in confined spaces especially at high speeds. But it drives well enough most of the time.

vinj,

Arte ba? haha. But the thing has served us well since 1997. Ok na bottled water. Urvan Estates don't have Patty problems because there is no turbo to go on overboost and grenade the engine. hehe.

[locoroco777]

Doc otep, Just a question regarding the 7.3 powerstroke engine..

Wala bang Fuel Injection issues kayo na naencounter? I heard before na medyo fuel sensitive daw ang mga US na diesel engines because of the strict emission standards sa tate...to the point na naglalagay pa daw ng urea para lang maka comply...eh considering yung quality ng fuel natin dito na ultimo yung mga ASEAN diesel units eh nagkakanda leche leche na ang makina pano pa kaya yung mga US diesel units...another story pa na nakwento sakin from a mechanic waaay back , pero its not actually the powerstroke engine but a 6.5 diesel Chevy engine naman I forgot lang what its called....sabi nya parang every 3 months daw pina papalitan ng fuel filter dahil pumupugak pugak daw agad due to the sucky diesel fuel here...it was mounted sa isang suburban...apparently the politician who owns it got tired of the maintenance bill and sold the suburban tapos he got himself a new one, this time a gasoline variant hehe...